Friday, April 30, 2010

Proposal: Manifesto Pledge

Times out 1-9. -Ornithopter

Adminned at 02 May 2010 10:56:02 UTC

If the Proposal titled “Principled Self-Interest” failed, this Proposal does nothing.

Remove the following from rule 2.6:

Each Party may also create a manifesto, detailing their internal procedure for determining a leader and what themes they would run if successful.

Add a new sub-rule to rule 2.6, entitled Party Manifestos:

Each Party may create a Manifesto.

Any Voter may post a Manifesto Proposal for the Party to which they are affiliated. Any Voter affiliated to that Party may vote on the Manifesto Proposal. As soon as a Manifesto Proposal has gained the support of at least quorum of its Party’s affiliated Voters, it is considered to be adopted. An adopted Party Manifesto must be transfered to the [[My Dynasty]] page of the wiki by any member of the Party in question, and may only be modified, changed or removed by the passage of a new Manifesto Proposal. A Party may have only one adopted Manifesto at a time.

The Manifesto should describe what internal process the Party intends to use to select a victor if they win the election, as well as what kind of dynasty they would consider adopting.

Thanks Kevan.



30-04-2010 13:42:09 UTC


Is a Manifesto Proposal a “normal” Proposal per Rule 1.3? In both “ways” there are Problems, for example:

Why does the Manifesto need to be added (or changed) by a Party member and not by the enacting Admin?

What happens to Proposals which do not reach this quorum?


30-04-2010 13:58:01 UTC


Kevan: City he/him

30-04-2010 13:58:16 UTC

against Per Keba, “Proposal” is a very dangerous word to be using here, particularly when such a Proposal can be “adopted” immediately with only one vote.

Josh: he/they

30-04-2010 14:04:33 UTC

@Keba - no, they aren’t normal proposals. They can’t be unless explicitly stated, I think. Thus they don’t really “enact” or “fail” - they just have an effect that any player can be responsible for.

And manifesto proposals are designed so that they can’t “fail” they just persist and stay open until the end of what is likely to be a very short dynasty. It does mean that an idea whose time has not yet come can languish only to pop up at the last minute, but I’m less worried about that than I am about the difficulties of setting up a separate queue for a class of proposals that only a small minority can vote against.

Josh: he/they

30-04-2010 14:06:15 UTC

@Kevan - not sure that I agree entirely. “Proposal” isn’t a defined keyword, and the prop makes it somewhat clear that a Manifesto Proposal is a discrete entity.

Kevan: City he/him

30-04-2010 14:18:12 UTC

[Josh] Actually it’s really the word “adopted” that’s the problem. Even if Manifesto Proposals were called Distimmed Doshes, I could make a Proposal that was also a Distimmed Dosh (a Dosh just seems to be a thing I “post”) and then invoke a rule which would legally “adopt” that Dosh - legally “adopting” the thing I just posted. It’s unclear whether “adopt” is a (“supersedes the normal English usage of the word”) keyword here.

I think you’re right, but I’m worried (particularly after the last DoV) that a quorum of players would disagree if someone made a DoV off the back of this. We should definitely take a long hard look at the currently unsatisfactory definition of “keyword” in the glossary.


30-04-2010 14:27:55 UTC



30-04-2010 14:30:16 UTC

[Josh] I assume “Any Voter affiliated to that Party may vote on the Manifesto Proposal. As soon as a Manifesto Proposal has gained the support of at least quorum of its Party’s affiliated Voters” is very unclear then. How do you vote? Is “Yeah, like this!” a vote or need the Party members use Voting Icons?

And, as Kevan stated, “Any Voter may post a Manifesto Proposal” is not clear either. Mabye something like “Any Voter may post a Story Post (known as a Manifesto Proposal)”


30-04-2010 15:24:09 UTC

against @ Kevan.

redtara: they/them

30-04-2010 19:20:58 UTC

against for simplicity, and per Keba.


30-04-2010 20:14:21 UTC


Darknight: he/him

01-05-2010 05:25:17 UTC



01-05-2010 15:21:05 UTC