Tuesday, August 29, 2006

Proposal: Music? No. Procedure? Yes.

3-7. Timed Out.—Chronos.

Adminned at 31 Aug 2006 11:47:55 UTC

Create a Dynastic Rule called “Definitions” with text:

A vote on a Proposal is a Useless vote if it is a vote of DEFERENTIAL and the Conductor has not voted on that Proposal.

A vote on a Proposal is a Useful vote if it is a counted vote and it is not a Useless vote.

Create a Dynastic Rule called “Lucky Number Seven” with text:

If there exists a Pending Proposal (call it “Proposal X”) on which there are exactly 7 Useful votes:

*If the counted FOR-AGAINST vote total for Proposal X is exactly 3-4, Proposal X immediately fails.
*If the counted FOR-AGAINST vote total for Proposal X is exactly 5-2, Proposal X is immediately Enacted (and the Ruleset and/or Gamestate updated to include the specified effects of Proposal X).
*If there are exactly 7 counted VETO votes for Proposal X, a comment of “[subsection_number] DICE7” must be rolled in the GNDT for each subsection of “Dynastic Rules” (but not for subsections of those subsections), replacing “subsection_number” with the subsection’s number.  Each subsection for which a 1 or 7 was rolled is repealed (including its subsections).

Note that any Useful votes of DEFERENTIAL count as the Conductor’s vote for the purposes of the above bullet points.
Any Musician who notices that one of the above bullet points applies, but who does not have enough Blognomic administrative authority to make all of the required changes (e.g. officially mark the proposal as failed, create new GNDT columns, etc.) should immediately comment on Proposal X explaining this, if no other Musician has already done so.

This Rule has no effect on any Proposals which were created before this Rule was created.  This paragraph may be removed from the Ruleset by any Musician, if there are no Pending Proposals which were created before this Rule was created.

Comments

Rodney:

29-08-2006 17:58:17 UTC

for

Cosmologicon:

29-08-2006 18:14:56 UTC

imperial

Enact it immediately? Whose responsibility is it to do all this? The first Admin to see it?

ChronosPhaenon:

29-08-2006 18:18:51 UTC

against

Hix:

29-08-2006 19:14:40 UTC

As always, it is every Musician’s responsibility to help keep the game documents up to date (within eir power), and to keep track of situations when game documents do not exactly reflect the current Gamestate.  For example, if Thelonious were to make a post to the blog in the “Proposal” category right now, we would all have to keep track of the fact that a game document (i.e. the blog) is misrepresenting the Gamestate, since the post would not actually be a Proposal (Thelonious already has 2 Proposals Pending).  A few dynasties ago, we had movement points (tracked in the GNDT) automatically be reset every midnight.  So every day, from midnight until someone updated the GNDT, the Gamestate was being misreported in the GNDT.  But it’s no big deal, especially in a procedural nomic.  Half the challenge is supposed to be figuring out which moves are legal at all—sure, some Musicians will forget about the automatic changes, and act erroneously.  I can hardly wait!

Cavaliere Pugrins:

29-08-2006 19:34:34 UTC

veto  veto  veto  veto  veto  veto  veto

Are those VETO votes, or just cool icons, since I’m not the Conductor?

Hix:

29-08-2006 19:40:55 UTC

Those are not votes, of course (and they’re nowhere near being counted votes).  Just like when the Conductor uses the deferential icon, or when a musician uses an icon in some unofficial post.

Cosmologicon:

29-08-2006 19:48:31 UTC

I guess the question is how can there ever be “exactly 7 counted VETO votes for Proposal X” like the third bullet point says?

Hix:

29-08-2006 19:52:39 UTC

Conductor veto plus 6 deferential is the only way I can think of in the current Ruleset.  Pretty rare, so I gave it a powerful effect.

Quazie:

29-08-2006 22:18:58 UTC

imperial ahhh!!! that is all

epylar:

30-08-2006 01:36:02 UTC

for

Fun.  OK, so if there are 7 counted VETO votes for a proposal, and I’m an admin, I can do the dice roll thing with the dynastic rules…

And 2/7 of them vanish..

And I notice there are still 7 counted VETO votes..

So 2/7 of the dynastic rules vanish..

Until there are no more dynastic rules.

(?)

epylar:

30-08-2006 01:36:28 UTC

Hey, by the way, could someone make me an admin?

epylar:

30-08-2006 01:41:08 UTC

(sorry, I’ve had a long day.. feeling a bit flippant.)

Kevan: he/him

30-08-2006 01:53:35 UTC

against The recursion thing, plus a little too much “must” and “immediately”.

Thrawn:

30-08-2006 07:04:22 UTC

for

Thelonious:

30-08-2006 08:18:16 UTC

for

Kevan: he/him

30-08-2006 11:34:37 UTC

Actually, repeatedly repealing every rule is compulsory, because it “must” be done. I suppose it’ll stop as soon as the Lucky Number Seven rule kills itself, though.

Thelonious:

30-08-2006 12:48:32 UTC

Oh okay, I suppose you’re right.

against (CoV)

Hix:

30-08-2006 16:49:08 UTC

The repealing will stop as soon as either “Definitions” or “Lucky Number Seven” is repealed.  If we don’t want it to recur, we could just make the third bullet point fail Proposal X, too.  Then there wouldn’t still be a Pending Proposal with 7 vetoes.

epylar:

30-08-2006 17:36:26 UTC

Perhaps tightening procedure would benefit from a look at the original nomic rules.  They seem pretty thorough.

Rodney:

30-08-2006 20:00:12 UTC

against

Poe:

31-08-2006 01:08:52 UTC

against

... stop the music?

Seventy-Fifth Trombone:

31-08-2006 03:47:05 UTC

We’ve lost a lot of stuff in the Ruleset since I played last. It used to say that a VETOed Proposal immediately fails, at which point it’s no longer pending, so the “seven vetoes” could never happen.  But we’ve lost “Vetoed Proposals immediately fail” in some rewrites.