Monday, March 20, 2017

Proposal: No guts, no glory

Reached quorum 6-0. Enacted by card.

Adminned at 22 Mar 2017 00:57:24 UTC

In Habitat, replace

As a daily communal action, any Organ may “gather ambient nutrients” by stating it is doing so in the GNDT. When an organ gathers ambient nutrients, if a terrain feature that supplies a nutrient is in the same cell as the creature, add five of that nutrient to the statolith, plus an additional five nutrients of that type for each organ in the state of Gut. Gathering ambient nutrients fulfills Hunger.

with:

As a daily creature-communal action (a daily action that can only be performed by one Organ belonging to each Creature), any Organ may “gather ambient nutrients” by stating it is doing so in the GNDT. When an organ gathers ambient nutrients, if a terrain feature that supplies a nutrient is in the same cell as the Organ’s creature, add five of that nutrient to the statolith for each Organ belonging to that creature that is in the state of Gut. Gathering ambient nutrients fulfills Hunger; only the Organ gathering ambient nutrients may take a reward for fulfilling Hunger.

Per some discussion on separating depression by creature. This:
(1) makes gathering ambient nutrients a per-creature basis, but
(2) makes it so you need a Gut to actually gain them, and
(3) clarifies who, if anyone gets the nutrients for fulfilling hunger given that it’s a communal action (I assumed it’s the Organ who’s willing to take on the paperwork of doing the gathering but it’s currently ambiguous)

Comments

Oracular rufio:

03-20-2017 23:23:30 UTC

I don’t think it’s ambiguous currently, since there’s one organ who’s actually doing the action.  But yeah, this is probably a good modification.  I’ll wait on voting, in case someone else sees a problem.

Cuddlebeam:

03-20-2017 23:32:37 UTC

3 collaborating Nymphs can obtain infinite nutrients with this - combined with the infinite Statolith mining exploit I posted in the Axon earlier, this means an infinite supply of nutrients available at any time for 3 collaborating Organs following this scheme.

How to generate an infinite amount of nutrients:
-Morph from X to Nymph-> (1 each, together 3)
-Merge into Creature 1 (free)
-Each Organ of Creature 1 gathers ambient nutrients (+5+5+5 to Statolith, total 15)
-Mining costs burning 3 nutrients per 1 nutrient mined, recover the Nymph-merge cost by mining (9 nutrients burned, 3 nutrients mined back)
-Statolith has gained 6 nutrients total, Nymphs are back at their initial state.

-Morph into a Nymph again
-Merge into Creature 2 (free)
-etc

Repeat ad infinitum to generate infinite nutrients for yourself.

pokes:

03-20-2017 23:36:01 UTC

It’s still a daily action, which can’t be taken an infinite number of times.

Cuddlebeam:

03-20-2017 23:39:54 UTC

Due, but he redefined the term, in “a [daily action] that can only be performed by [one Organ belonging to each Creature]”

If I belong to a new creature, I’m a new “Organ belonging to a Creature”, so I can do that daily action again as a new, fresh being in regards to that limitation (because I’m not longer a Creature that belonged to the former creature).

card:

03-20-2017 23:40:40 UTC

If we are going full on creature localization then nutrient swapping between organs should probably be limited to organs whose creatures share the same square on the map.

pokes:

03-20-2017 23:42:55 UTC

@card: Currently direct organ-to-organ nutrient transfer has to be within-creature.

pokes:

03-20-2017 23:45:14 UTC

@Cuddlebeam: I don’t believe that sentence redefines “daily action”, it defines “daily creature-communal action”, which is a type of daily action. I agree that there’s a two-bit scam in which 3 nymphs can get ambient nutrients three times in a day by forming three different creatures, but not infinite nutrients.

Cuddlebeam:

03-20-2017 23:52:04 UTC

Yes, but the daily limitation applies to when you’re still a [Organ belonging to Creature 1].

If you change to a [Organ belonging to Creature 2], you haven’t made a daily action as that being yet, and you rightfully can*, so you can do the daily action again. If the action was a simply a “Daily Communal Action”, then there would be no problem, but for some reason, a redefinition is there.

*Because a “daily creature-communal action” is defined as “a daily action that can only be performed by [one Organ belonging to each Creature]”, not simply [an Organ, if they belong to a Creature] or something.

card:

03-20-2017 23:52:46 UTC

[pokes] Oh, it’s just that until recently everyone has been in one creature, so it hasn’t come up. A simple fix to that scam could be to change it so that the creature has to have not been created in the same day.

Oracular rufio:

03-20-2017 23:55:00 UTC

You still get 15 if all organs in the creature transform into guts, but that costs another three.  Then again, only one organ actually has to burn a nutrient to transform into a nymph afterwards, since then the creature is destroyed and the other two become nymphs automatically.  Maybe say you can’t become a nymph if you’ve already created or joined a creature that day.  That should do it.

Cuddlebeam:

03-20-2017 23:55:58 UTC

“Maybe say you can’t become a nymph if you’ve already created or joined a creature that day.”

I think that’s a way to do it, yeah.

card:

03-21-2017 00:05:08 UTC

What if someone goes idle in the same day they’ve joined a creature? Then the other two couldn’t become nymphs and don’t exist on the map anywhere.

I’m toying with this idea, but it seems unwieldy: “As a daily-cell-communal action (a daily action that is communal between the organs sharing a cell) a nymph may make a Petition to Aggregate if none of the named nymphs nor the author have moved that day. This is the only way in which a nymph may make a Petition to Aggregate”

card:

03-21-2017 00:06:30 UTC

*the organs whose nymphs share a cell

Oracular rufio:

03-21-2017 00:09:09 UTC

I think just saying that you can’t spend a nutrient to become a nymph if you’ve already created/joined a creature that day is good enough.  If someone idles you become a nymph without a nutrient cost, and then that person can’t rejoin the game for four days.

Kevan:

03-21-2017 08:10:36 UTC

for

Matt:

03-21-2017 15:03:30 UTC

for

orkboi:

03-21-2017 16:15:34 UTC

for

Viv:

03-21-2017 17:08:50 UTC

for

Oracular rufio:

03-21-2017 23:34:47 UTC

for