Wednesday, June 23, 2010

Proposal: Plastic

Times out and fails, 1-5. -Bucky

Adminned at 25 Jun 2010 08:11:03 UTC

If the proposal entitled “Victory Condition” fails, and this proposal is enacted, first enact “Victory Condition” as if it were part 0 of this proposal.  The actions proposed here, if enacted, must be done in order.

Part 1:  There is a special item called the cheap plastic imitation of the Amulet of Yendor.  There is also a special item called the real Amulet of Yendor.

Part 2:  Change all references of the “Amulet of Yendor” in the ruleset to the “real Amulet of Yendor”.  Change the rule entitled “The Amulet” to read:

There is a special item called the Amulet of Yendor.  Any Amulet of Yendor that is not part of an @‘s inventory has a Dungeon Level, tracked in the RNG’s row in the GNDT.  While the Amulet of Yendor is in an @‘s Inventory, if they Die as a result of Fighting another @ or another @ Fighting them, that other @ has the Amulet of Yendor added to their Inventory.  Similarly, if they Die due to any other cause, an Amulet of Yendor is created, having a Dungeon Level equal to that @‘s Dungeon Level.

There is an item called the Amulet of Yendor spawner. The Amulet of Yendor spawner has a Dungeon Level, tracked in the RNG’s row in the GNDT.  If an @ has an Amulet of Yendor spawner in their inventory, the Amulet of Yendor spawner is removed from their inventory, they receive an Amulet of Yendor, and a second Amulet of Yendor has a Dungeon Level equal to the @‘s Dungeon Level.  No @ may hold more than one Amulet of Yendor.

If no @ has the same Dungeon Level as the Amulet of Yendor spawner, and the Amulet of Yendor spawner’s Dungeon Level is greater than 1, and the Amulet of Yendor spawner has had the same Dungeon Level for the previous 48 hours and since the start of the week, any @ may decrease the Amulet of Yendor spawner’s Dungeon Level by 1.

If an @‘s Dungeon Level is 0, and they have the real Amulet of Yendor in their Inventory, they achieve victory.  If an @‘s Dungeon Level is 0, and they have an Amulet of Yendor in their Inventory, they roll a DICE2.  If the result is 1, they achieve victory.  If the result is 2, replace the @‘s Amulet of Yendor with a cheap plastic imitation of the Amulet of Yendor, and replace the other existing Amulet of Yendor with the real Amulet of Yendor.  Then, the @ Dies.

If there is a real Amulet of Yendor, all Amulets of Yendor are removed from the game.

Part 3:  If a majority of EVC’s of this proposal include the phrase ‘I am Still Alive’, replace the last sentence of the rule entitled “The Amulet” to read: 

Then, the @‘s Dungeon Level becomes 1.

Part 4:  In the rule entitled “Dungeon”, change the text:

If the attempt is successful, and their Dungeon Level is less than the Amulet of Yendor’s, they increase their Dungeon Level by 1.  If the attempt is successful and they have the same Dungeon Level as the Amulet of Yendor and no @ has an Amulet of Yendor in their Inventory, they add the Amulet of Yendor to their Inventory.  If the attempt is successful, and either their Dungeon Level is greater than the Amulet of Yendor’s or they have the Amulet of Yendor in their Inventory, they decrease their Dungeon Level by 1.

On any successful attempt, they decrease their Kills to 0.

to

If the attempt is successful, and their Dungeon Level is not equal to that of an Amulet of Yendor’s or the Amulet of Yendor spawner’s, they must either increase or decrease their Dungeon Level by 1.  If the attempt is successful, and their Dungeon Level is equal to that of the Amulet of Yendor spawner’s, the Amulet of Yendor spawner is added to their inventory.  If the attempt is successful, and their Dungeon Level is equal to that of an Amulet of Yendor which is not part of an @‘s inventory, that Amulet of Yendor is added to the @‘s inventory.

On any successful attempt, they decrease their Kills to 0.

Part 5:  Add a sub-rule to the rule “Victory Condition” entitled “Recognition”, which reads as follows:

An Amulet of Yendor can be Recognized.  When this happens, the RNG rolls a DICE2.  If the result is 1, the Amulet of Yendor is replaced with the real Amulet of Yendor, and the other Amulet of Yendor becomes the cheap plastic imitation of the Amulet of Yendor.  If the result is 2, the Amulet of Yendor is replaced with the cheap plastic imitation of the Amulet of Yendor, and the other Amulet of Yendor becomes the real Amulet of Yendor.

Add another sub-rule to the rule “Victory Condition” entitled “Limits”, which reads as follows:

No action may be taken that changes the number of Amulets of Yendor to a number other than 0 or 2.  No action may be taken that changes the number of Amulets of Yendor to 0 unless there exists a real Amulet of Yendor or an Amulet of Yendor spawner.  This sub-rule supersedes all other rules.

There are two purposes to this rule.  First of all, it is to include my favorite item in the game, the cheap plastic imitation of the Amulet of Yendor.  Secondly, it will reduce the level of ‘chaotic free-for-all’ that is involved with the proposal “Victory Condition.”

Comments

lilomar:

23-06-2010 13:51:57 UTC

against
1) if a majority of EVC’s on the proposal include that phrase (IaSA), then the last paragraphs will read:

If an @‘s Dungeon Level is 0, and they have the real Amulet of Yendor in their Inventory, they achieve victory.  If an @‘s Dungeon Level is 0, and they have an Amulet of Yendor in their Inventory, they roll a DICE2.  If the result is 1, they achieve victory.  If the result is 2, replace the @‘s Amulet of Yendor with a cheap plastic imitation of the Amulet of Yendor, and replace the other existing Amulet of Yendor with the real Amulet of Yendor.  Then, the @ Dies.

Then, the @‘s Dungeon Level becomes 1.

which is not, I believe, what you were aiming for.

2) Why have a spawner? If the proposal is enacted as-written, then no Amulet of Yendor exists, and there is no way to add an Amulet of Yendor spawner to your inventory. Surely it would be simpler to just say that if an @ has an Amulet of Yendor in their inventory, if there are no other Amulets of Yendor in existance, another Amulet of Yendor appears on the same Dungeon Level as that @.

3) There should be a way for an @ to Recognize an Amulet for themselves if they are on level 0, so that they can Achieve Victory instead of waiting to be mauled by other @‘s while the RNG takes his time rolling DICE2.

4) I’m not convinced a free-for-all would be bad, not sure it would be good, but not convinced it would be bad.

Galdyn:

23-06-2010 14:46:13 UTC

i am fairly certain that there is a way to add it to you inventory per part 4. But not sure what i think about this yet.

lilomar:

23-06-2010 14:48:44 UTC

whoop, read part four backwards. sorry, there is indeed a way to get a spawner in your inventory, but i am still pretty sure that such an item is unnecessary.

Hix:

23-06-2010 19:43:50 UTC

against

Bucky:

23-06-2010 20:08:27 UTC

against

Darknight: he/him

23-06-2010 20:43:59 UTC

against

h2g2guy:

23-06-2010 21:22:56 UTC

Heh, heh.  Right.  I will self kill per lilomar points 1 and 2, but I want to know:  do you guys actually want a plastic amulet?  Let me know before I self kill so I can see whether or not I should leave this dead, or fix and re-propose.

The reason for the spawner was that I intended to do this differently, but when I modified it to work better than I originally intended, I never got rid of the spawner.  If I do re-propose, I’ll fix that as you mentioned. 

I haven’t played much NetHack except for recently, but I know that if you leave the Dungeon with a plastic amulet, you lose, and there are ways to determine whether or not you have the real Amulet.  I didn’t want to write the techniques for finding out whether or not you have the real Amulet, so I left the conditions of Recognition to someone else.  However, in the second to last paragraph of Part 2’s rule change, there is a way to effectively recognize a generic Amulet if you’re on Dungeon Level 0.  On a dice roll of 1, you have the real one, and you win.  On a dice roll of 2…well, the consequence would have been different depending on how many people put that reference to Portal in their EVC.  And I thought I had ironed out all of the bugs…

Qwazukee:

23-06-2010 21:52:36 UTC

against

Kyre:

23-06-2010 22:23:36 UTC

@h2g2guy
I think having a plastic amulet would absolutely be a cool idea.

lilomar:

24-06-2010 12:20:46 UTC

I like the idea of a plastic amulet. Points 1,2 were the deal breakers for me, so if you fix them, I’ll be for (assuming there aren’t any other major bugs).

lilomar:

24-06-2010 18:41:27 UTC

Oh, and there is a way for the _RNG_ to recognize the amulet, but not for the player.

I would suggest making it so that whenever an @‘s dungeon level in the GNDT is changed to 0, if that @ has an AoY in their inventory, then the @ or RNG who changed that must also roll and (etc, etc).