Monday, June 28, 2010

Protosal: Compromise Candidate

Add a new core rule, after the rule entitled “Resolution of Proposals”, called Quarantine:

If the RNG’s vote, or at least half of the EVCs, on a proposal also contain the voting icon for QUARANTINE, and that proposal would pass under the terms set out in rule 1.5, then instead of having its stated effect upon the ruleset or gamestate it is moved in its entirety to Quarantine. Proposals in Quarantine have no effect upon the rest of the ruleset or the gamestate until they are moved out of Quarantine by a further proposal - either by amending and fully enacting its effects or by removing it from the ruleset. To all intents and purposes, a Quarantined proposal is considered to have been enacted.

Add the following to the end of the first paragraph of rule 1.1:

Section 4 is the Quarantine, which contains proposals that have passed but which currently have no effect upon the ruleset.

Amend the following paragraph, from the rule entitled “Victory and Ascension”:

When a DoV is enacted, all other active DoVs are failed, and a new Dynasty begins with the @ who made the DoV as its RNG. (That @ may pass this role to another @ at this point, if he wishes.) The Hiatus continues until the new RNG posts an Ascension Address to the BlogNomic weblog - this shall specify the RNG’s chosen theme for the new Dynasty, and may optionally include a proclamation that any number of Dynastic Rules will be repealed, and/or that the words @ and RNG will be replaced with theme-specific terms throughout the entire ruleset.

as follows:

When a DoV is enacted, all other active DoVs are failed, and a new Dynasty begins with the @ who made the DoV as its RNG. (That @ may pass this role to another @ at this point, if he wishes.) The Hiatus continues until the new RNG posts an Ascension Address to the BlogNomic weblog - this shall specify the RNG’s chosen theme for the new Dynasty, and may optionally include a proclamation that any number of Dynastic Rules will be repealed, and/or that the words @ and RNG will be replaced with theme-specific terms throughout the entire ruleset, and/or that any or all of the proposals in Quarantine are removed.

Add a new voting icon, which corresponds to the string :QTINE:

The veto question seems increasingly factionalised. The debate between ais and Kevan in the newest iteration of the debate focuses on how to deal with proposals that are popular but flawed. ais cites the threat of good proposals being lost in an extended proposal queue; Kevan suggests that protracted examination time is worthwhile, and a collaborative approach to proposal crafting is in any case more desirable.

Both points have merit and this is a modest attempt at pleasing both impulses. Rather than enforcing a fail-and-repropose cycle - which can be interpreted as punishment - this aims at more of a pass-and-correct model. By considering Quarantined proposals enacted, the original proposer gets any credit mandated by the ruleset for passing their proposal, freeing other players to rework quarantined ideas and openly collaborate. And as quarantined proposals can’t affect the rest of the game, a suitable length of time for reflection can be made use of.

It should be mentioned that I would like to see this replace the procedural veto, so I’d appreciate feedback both on the proposals’ own merits and its merits as opposed to the procedural veto.

Comments

lilomar:

28-06-2010 13:09:24 UTC

Issue: when voting for - :QTINE: on a proposal, you are trusting the other voters to also vote :QTINE: if they don’t, you run the risk of voting for on a potentially broken proposal.

A better solution would be to make :QTINE: it’s own vote, that counts as against, unless at least half of all votes are :QTINE: in which case it counts as for , with the effect you describe above.

This would, however, break both alethioscript and blognomicbot’s vote counter.

Rodney:

28-06-2010 13:45:31 UTC

for With lilomar’s idea. This idea feels very Nomic to me.

ais523:

28-06-2010 14:04:04 UTC

Alternatively, you could make :QTINE: count as for, but if a proposal has more quarantine than for votes upon “passing”, it gets quarantined rather than being enacted.

lilomar:

28-06-2010 14:18:09 UTC

@ais: that way, you still run the risk of passing a borked proposal.

I interpret quarantine to mean “I like the idea of this proposal, but there are flaws that need fixed.” I wouldn’t want to vote for a proposal when I felt that way about it.

Rodney:

28-06-2010 18:42:24 UTC

How about the following? A proposal is Quarantined when:

* It has a Quorum of Quarantine Votes
* It would time out, but would be enacted if the Quarantine Votes were fors

Kevan: he/him

28-06-2010 19:12:41 UTC

It’d be interesting to test this for a while to see how it played out in practice, but it seems like quite a big extra mechanism just to make sure that we don’t immediately forget a popular but flawed idea when it floats past us. I don’t think we’re losing that many good ideas (if an urgent fix is botched, someone else usually steps up repropose it), and for me the game of Nomic is about falling forwards quickly, rather than pausing to carefully rework a single idea - a queue-clearing day can be a long time in Nomic, and it’s usually more fun to try something else than to go back and fix the bugs in an earlier idea.

And this does seem to be lacking a way to discuss the flawed proposal before reposting it, but I suppose (as mentioned on IRC) we can just point to a wiki talk page or something.

Kevan: he/him

28-06-2010 19:21:50 UTC

...although I suppose if this replaces the procedural veto, we still have the comments for that proposal, until it times out. Which would be useful, so long as the Quarantine section explicitly linked to each proposal.

lilomar:

28-06-2010 19:34:32 UTC

Would it be possible to set up a status of Quarantined that doesn’t close a post for comments?

Qwazukee:

28-06-2010 22:54:50 UTC

against

Kevan: he/him

29-06-2010 07:32:14 UTC

[lilomar] Good point. Presumably it’s possible, although poking around ExpressionEngine admin pages for a few minutes, I can’t see how (there are “status” settings for Open, Closed, Vetoed and everything, but can’t see any way to define which are commentable; nor is there anything useful in the Comment Posting Preferences).

lilomar:

29-06-2010 13:12:13 UTC

Kevan: I don’t see a setting for what icon should be used for a post in, say, the vetoed category either. I am guessing that the settings as to whether or not commenting should be enabled are set on the same page that the icon is set. Unless that is done in css or otherwise at render-time, in which case, back to square one.

lilomar:

29-06-2010 13:27:41 UTC

Found where those settings are. In the ‘posts’ Template. I’m not sure if you can set comment-able there or not, never worked with php. (or any web-language really)

Josh: Observer he/they

29-06-2010 18:09:15 UTC

One of the super admins needs to do it, I think.

Admin -> Utilities ->SQL Manager -> Database Queries Form.

In there, you’re looking for exp:weblog:entries which can be edited using the parameters set out here: http://expressionengine.com/docs/modules/weblog/parameters.html

(Is Kevan the only functioning super admin at the moment? If so, if someone gives me the power I don’t mind having a tinker. I won’t break anything, much.)