Monday, August 13, 2012


Add a new rule “Ha’pennies”, reading: “Each player has a non-negative integer of ha’pennies, tracked in the GNDT.”

Add a new rule “The Merchant”, reading: “southpointingchariot is the Merchant. The Merchant is not considered a player for the purpose of any other dynastic rule.”

Retitle the rule “Upgrades” as “Orders”, and change its text to read: “Each player has a set of orders, known to them and the Merchant. Each order is a list of 5 pie flavors, along with a unique ID Number. As a daily action, if a player has at least one ha’penny, they may spend one ha’penny to request orders by making a post with the text ORDER, in all caps, in the title. The Merchant should then randomly generate 2 orders for that player, as well as 1 for every other player. That player also receives 5 pies, and each other player 1 pie, the flavors of which are determined randomly by the Merchant.
If a player possesses the set of 5 pies listed in one of their orders, they may fulfill that order by making a post with the text FULFILL, in all caps, in the title, stating the ID number of the order they are fulfilling and the pies listed in the order. They then gain one ha’penny and lose those 5 pies”

Create a new rule “Trading”, reading “At any time, a player may trade their pies, orders, or ha’pennies with one other player by making a post with TRADE, in all caps, in the title, stating the name of the player they wish to trade with, as well as the flavor of any pies, the amount of ha’pennies, and/or the ID Number of any orders they wish to transfer, along with the same information for the items they wish to receive from the player they wish to trade with. If the player they wish to trade with responds for, the trade is carried out.”

I know a lot of people don’t like protosals - in this case, I didn’t see any other option.

This is a rough sketch of an idea I have for the dynasty. Much of the language, and the actual detailed processes, is still very rough. But I wanted to get some feedback on the concept and some help with the details. The focus is on set collection and trading.

I know many will be hesitant about me taking the role of the merchant, which would typically be the emperor. I would be ecstatic to let Clucky take that role, but I didn’t want to make him do the work or lose his player-ship.


Clucky: he/him

13-08-2012 01:22:13 UTC

Would consider veto in the current form, or at the very least have a strong against

Don’t really like having yet another dynasty with a special person you have to PM—that creates a single point of failure. Its an interesting mechanic though, so I’d at least consider it if it didn’t overwrite the upgrades rule. I’m not sure why we can’t have both. I’ve very interested to see where upgrades could take us. Part of the point of Nomic is to add rules that build on each other, not just rewrite everything.


13-08-2012 01:43:32 UTC

Fair. I’d be glad to see suggestions as to how to implement it more fluidly. The central points I would stress would be set collection and free trading.

Clucky: he/him

13-08-2012 02:23:34 UTC

Right, I like the idea of various goals of sets of pie you need to build up. Trading pie also seems like a reasonably interesting mechanic (though could be used to offload all your pie to help a friend win… so not totally sure what I think about that). Do targets really need to be secret though? Could they be publicly randomly generate?


13-08-2012 03:00:46 UTC

The issue their is the removal of the information problem.

In this set-up, the core strategy focuses on the value of information. You don’t want to tell others what you want, because then they will try to prevent you from receiving it, or ask more from you to receive it, especially if many players want the same thing. At the same time, to get the pies you need, you have to communicate what your orders require. Thus there is a careful game of negotiation and diplomacy to ensure that you are getting the best deal in the zero sum game.

If the values are all revealed, then their is no skill to getting what you need - just luck as to whether you get the pies you require or have what many others want. Trading then happens mechanically, without risk or manipulation as to the true value of commodities. It cannot be clear how valuable a pie or order is, or there is no trade-off - just who can be the best statistician.

Clucky: he/him

13-08-2012 06:53:36 UTC


The last thing I tried wish hashes everyone hated, but we could have people choose their own targets instead of randomly generating them. Also choose a salt. Then publically reveal HASH(targetlist + SALT) and HASH(SALT). When the target is reached, they reveal SALT so everyone can confirm they were actually going for the right target. (Without SALT, anyone could just sit there and try all the possible combos to see what your going for)

But I’m also okay with having a special player. I just don’t want to kill the upgrade rule.


13-08-2012 14:01:53 UTC

Frankly, I don’t like obligatory daily actions. I don’t always have time to be on. The idea here was that a player would not want to request orders anywhere close to daily.

But again, I’m very willing to be flexible. I don’t know enough about hashes to be of assistance there. The core mechanics I’m describing I think are strong and balanced - I fear my ignorance is preventing me from getting but so much done. I’m so used to designing games where this is a “house” - either a board or a computer.

The problem with choosing your own targets is, why not just choose targets for the pies you already have? Why trade?


13-08-2012 14:03:17 UTC

One way could be building a “deck” - a large set of predetermined orders and pies, which are randomly and secretly arrayed (someone would just have to be trusted not to peek) and then some sort of script to let players “draw” them - but that would take a lot of work.

Clucky: he/him

13-08-2012 18:11:05 UTC

Hence the default action, so you don’t fall too fall behind.

Deck mechanic seems too similar to taxicab if you ask me.


13-08-2012 18:35:40 UTC

A common deck to draw cards from along the game is completely different from a dominion-like deck, in my opinion - though I miss the point of predetermining orders.