Sunday, November 04, 2007

Proposal: Seantics

Passed 11-0.  Brendan

Adminned at 05 Nov 2007 14:38:00 UTC

Add the following after the first sentence of the rule “Seance:”

Town Meetings may be held during the Nighttime for this purpose only, and only one Seance may be held per Nighttime.

In addition, consider this post by Oracular Rufio a legal Town Meeting.

Comments

Oracular rufio:

04-11-2007 17:32:19 UTC

for  for  for

Chivalrybean:

04-11-2007 17:45:15 UTC

for

Kevan: he/him

04-11-2007 18:02:10 UTC

Does that second clause make any sense? The post will already have passed or failed (if vetoed), and if it’s a failed Town Meeting, making it a legal and failed Town Meeting won’t change anything.

Oracular rufio:

04-11-2007 18:13:18 UTC

Would it work if we said, “Treat it as if it had passed?”  Because this is getting silly…

Rodlen:

04-11-2007 18:28:26 UTC

for

Brendan: he/him

04-11-2007 18:53:49 UTC

In my understanding, right now it’s on the way to being a passed proposal but not a Town Meeting, which would render any answers by Ghosts in the follow-up post illegal.  If this passes, it would retroactively become a TM, allowing them to answer without fear of CfJ reprisal.

Shadowclaw:

04-11-2007 19:11:00 UTC

for

Kevan: he/him

04-11-2007 19:25:03 UTC

But the “Seance Results” post is made “when a Seance proposal passes”, and there’s no point in this process at which a legal Seance proposal goes through the procedure of “passing”.

Do need to fix the wording, though - for

Darknight: he/him

04-11-2007 19:56:18 UTC

for

Amnistar: he/him

04-11-2007 20:22:21 UTC

for

Bucky:

04-11-2007 20:43:06 UTC

I think the Seance proposal was a legal Seance anyway.  By my reading of the first sentence of the “Seance” rule, it specifically permits a Town Meeting at night if that town meeting is a valid Seance in all other respects.

(oh, and for )

Kevan: he/him

04-11-2007 23:33:44 UTC

It says that the Seance has to be raised at night, and it says that a Seance has to be a Town Meeting, but it doesn’t follow that Town Meetings can be raised at night.

It could have been written in such a way to state it unambiguously (“Seances are a special type of Town Meeting which can be raised at night”), but it wasn’t. For all we know it was written by a werewolf who knew that it was logically flawed; this is an important part of Nomic, and why we obey rules to the letter.

Oracular rufio:

05-11-2007 00:37:49 UTC

The Seance rule wasn’t written by a werewolf because it was written by Bucky.  As a non-werewolf ghost, I really really doubt that Bucky had anything in mind other than allowing dead people to continue to participate in the game.

Furthermore, the only people who have insisted on sticking to the letter of the rule are yourself and Brendan, though he is also trying to find ways to fix this.  In short, I don’t think any werewolves are involved in this; it is not tactical ruleset-sabotaging, but rather inane beaurocratic nonsense.

Darknight: he/him

05-11-2007 00:48:10 UTC

if worse comes to worse just make a CoJ

Tiberias:

05-11-2007 00:49:16 UTC

Yes, I do believe this is probably bureaucratic nonsense.  I, however, agree with Kevan that such nonsense is an integral part of Nomic.  If we make a habit of brushing it under the table, it will no longer be possible to do it strategically.

We should fix the problem, but it is a problem that needs fixing rather than ignoring.  Nobody had a problem with our dead gunsmith making a gun; should we have ignored the rules there and said that he can’t do that because he’s dead?

for (Note that this will only fix the rule, not make the seance happen)

Oracular rufio:

05-11-2007 00:51:02 UTC

I am typing it right now, Darknight.

Kevan: he/him

05-11-2007 09:25:05 UTC

for

aaronwinborn:

05-11-2007 21:53:53 UTC

for