Tuesday, February 10, 2015

Story Post: Trial: Reckless Airlock Operation

More than 48 hours have passed and this can’t be enacted, with 5 votes FOR not exceeding the command quorum of 5. Josh

Adminned at 12 Feb 2015 23:42:05 UTC

I accuse Josh of being an Android.

I’m not sure he’s actually an Android, but if he’s not he’d better have a very good reason for privately conspiring with someone else to covertly can Ayesdeeef.

I know Josh is in on said conspiracy because he’s the one who proposed to flush the marks.  I know there is a conspiracy because I had a GNDT Mark on Josh, there were no other GNDT Marks, and therefore there must have been at least two independent M4RK subroutines on Ayesdeeef to result in a hit.

As far as I can tell, the Androids are the only known 2-member team with the motive to can ayesdeeef privately (eliminating a known Human).  Note that the first mark-flushing was proposed by Josh in immediate response (10 hours) to my failed scouting inject on ayesdeeef, and when my follow-up MD1C prevented him from being Disabled, Josh added another Flush to his next proposal.  These are the only two Flush proposals that happened.  And, given the result of the first one, Josh should not have proposed a second Flush if he did not approve of at least the possibility of ayesdeeef being Disabled.

I demand explanations, but I’ll settle for locking Josh in the can instead.

Comments

Josh: he/him

10-02-2015 23:14:38 UTC

“I know Josh is in on said conspiracy because he’s the one who proposed to flush the marks.  I know there is a conspiracy because I had a GNDT Mark on Josh, there were no other GNDT Marks, and therefore there must have been at least two independent M4RK subroutines on Ayesdeeef to result in a hit.”

That is hot nonsense.

Of course the Androids targeted ayesdeeef. He was the only injured Crewmember and they were clearly gunning for him. The question of “why” is interesting, but one for another day.

What this whole thing boils down to is supposition around me flushing the marks. You state that it’s because I’m in on some kind of conspiracy. However, it is clear that you have massively overthought your rant about timing. Look at when the proposal initiating Marks was passed, and every proposal I have made since then - yes, all two of them. Note that they both contain a Flush the Marks order. It’s a mechanic I proposed and frankly I’m putting them in every proposal I make.

Why? Because we’re into the fourth full week of this dynasty and we still have no data whatsoever on who the Androids are. Every time anybody tries to propose a mechanic that would lead to anything of any kind happening, the conservative faction - led by Bucky - swings into action and does their best to kill it dead (by the way, this is a sentiment that I have expressed annoyance at before). The hope seems to be that if we sit quietly enough and don’t do anything then the Androids will be powerless to do anything and the Humans will win by default. Except that we all know that’s not how it works. If the humans sit still for long enough then the mission system combined with apathy will hand the game to the Androids. The Androids can win without ever taking an action - which may explain why they’ve been so reticent on the Demands and Sabotages so far. The Androids with through human conservatism.

In a normal game of werewolf, the tension of the game derives from the fact that every death brings new information. In this nomic game of werewolf, it’s better than that, because we have additional tools at our disposal. Why, Bucky, instead of obstructing the Marks at every turn, did you not simply submit a L0GS 12 hours ago, which would - in due course - have given you all the information you needed on who were the likely candidates for submitting M4RK subroutines? Why aren’t you using S33R, to see if this is just the two Androids using the M4RKs to pick off their prey rather than people dropping subroutines on the Ship’s Computer in an uncoordinated manner? Why didn’t you observe that Flush the Marks was coming and do something constructive, like give ayesdeeef an ASUM to protect him from being the likely target? In short, why are you obstructing any attempt that is being made to track down the Androids at this stage, rather than promoting a dead, sterile atmosphere in which the Androids can do their work unscrutinised?

We need data. This is the trade-off. Androids can veto our proposals so we have to start use the mechanics we can get past them to work out who they are. We have more than enough tools to do it now, so it’s time to stop being lazy and start using them.

Josh: he/him

10-02-2015 23:16:52 UTC

Oh, and against , of course.

Bucky: Proprietor

10-02-2015 23:34:56 UTC

Flushing the Marks seems to be carefully written to minimize the possibility of implicating anyone, which is in its own way even more worrying than how you’ve been using it.

If you wanted L0GS to be useful, you shouldn’t have proposed M4RK in a way that’s conveniently immune to it, by never actually being processed.  If the purpose of Flush was to gain information, you would have written it so that there is some indication of who was doing the M4RKs.  But as it stands, they function more like Night-kills than lynches.  The only information leaked here is that ayesdeeef was probably not an Android, and that does us no good.

Honestly, I agree with you on the ‘Androids can win through apathy’.  Apathetically voting DEF on every way for Androids to do their dirty work undetected while our ‘trusted’ Mediator pushes them through.

Josh: he/him

10-02-2015 23:50:43 UTC

And how is what you’ve been doing better? Passed any good Android-hunting mechanics through lately? If you don’t like the Marks, why not purpose a way to make it more useful, rather than just sitting back and waiting for the dynasty to end through mass-idling?

Flushing the Marks was built to get passed un-sabotaged, but it’s got a few good human applications built in. It should be giving more than enough data, you’re just not using it. I don’t know whether this attempt to throw shade is lazy or suspect, but it’s certainly bogus.

Sylphrena:

11-02-2015 01:14:40 UTC

for A high-risk environment also tends to benefit Androids (since they have fewer members and more control they can dominate a high-risk scenario easier than humans can). Josh has been making this game more and more high-risk, often at the human side’s expense.

The androids can’t do their work unscrutinized. It seems to me that there are a few vocal Crewmembers (Josh, Bucky, Brendan) who the others trust to scrutinize all the actions for everyone. These devices facto leaders can control the game. It is not apathy that will give victory to the androids; it is a trusted Crewmember who does not have the Ship’s best interest in mind.

Sylphrena:

11-02-2015 01:38:28 UTC

*de facto leaders

Bucky: Proprietor

11-02-2015 04:01:26 UTC

You’re the one on trial here, but I’ll answer why I’m better anyway: I’ve been using the existing Android-hunting mechanics (Injections) rather than attempting to neutralize them as effective android-hunting tools (by proposing mechanics that let the Androids easily and anonymously kill any Human Probe recipients).

Darknight: he/him

11-02-2015 20:18:00 UTC

Things just got a it more interesting to me now that the last mission got sabotaged since both josh and Bucky were part of the team

Darknight: he/him

11-02-2015 20:26:48 UTC

for  btw, since I trust Bucky abit more

_Fox_:

11-02-2015 20:38:53 UTC

for

ais523:

12-02-2015 11:44:47 UTC

for I think there’s a decent chance Josh is an Android, but more importantly, he already has a low Clearance due to getting lucky on a mission, and thus eliminating him from contention is important for Humans who want to win.

Bucky: Proprietor

12-02-2015 17:23:38 UTC

Interesting how every single person on the Sabotaged mission voted for this, as well as the last person I accused, and nobody else.

Josh: he/him

12-02-2015 17:29:20 UTC

Well that’s not quite true. I voted against it.