Friday, October 22, 2021

Proposal: With Arms Wide Open [Special Case]

Fewer than a quorum not voting against. Failed 3 votes to 9 by Kevan.

Adminned at 24 Oct 2021 14:23:15 UTC

Enact a new Special Case Rule entitled “Public Collaboration [Active]” as follows:

Each Realtor may have a set of up to two Allegiances, defaulting to an empty set, and this set is publicly tracked. At any time, a Realtor may change their Allegiances to be the names of one or two other Realtors, or may set their Allegiances to be empty.

A Realtor may not Pass the Mantle to another Realtor unless the passing Realtor had the name of the recipient in their Allegiances for at least the 48 hours immediately prior to the most recent successful Declaration of Victory..

If Eli Curf included the word “deactivate” in their EVC, set this rule to Inactive instead of Active.

Useful in this specific dynasty as a foundation for some kind of realty-firm mechanics, I think. Also more broadly useful as an option to reduce the amount of suspicion and speculation on motives that tends to crop up in chat and commentary, and for complicating the plans of large cabals.


Clucky: he/him

22-10-2021 18:58:00 UTC

This would force people to know who they want to hand a dynasty off to prior to the end of the dynasty. which makes it hard to either hand it off to a deserved runner up or someone with a cool dynasty idea.


22-10-2021 18:58:21 UTC

This could be a minor hindrance to mantlesharing. A little headache until they sort out how to get the mantle to who they want in the end. I think at best, this creates a 48 hour window between a final, team-revealing play and a DoV, in which someone or some team who is hot on their tails could ostensibly catch up.

As for as dynasty-specific dynamics go, I’m still saying it’s too early for public pooling dynamics.

Josh: he/they

22-10-2021 19:07:08 UTC

I will likely vote FOR this, but I think that the choice should be given to the Eli Curf as to whether this should initialise as active or not.

@Clucky It has been literal years since the last time a mantle was handed off on the basis of anything other than pooling; I feel like committing to culture change requires some steps like these in order to make them stick.


22-10-2021 19:11:04 UTC

Can we try this out as dynastic instead of special case first?

Brendan: he/him

22-10-2021 19:15:31 UTC

A special case rule can be deactivated at the end of the dynasty just as easily as a dynastic rule can be repealed.

Brendan: he/him

22-10-2021 19:17:25 UTC

Added a clause to address your point about imperial fiat, Josh.


22-10-2021 19:20:27 UTC

It can be deactivated, sure, but I don’t know if I want to sign up for it being activated unilaterally in future dynasties.

Brendan: he/him

22-10-2021 19:25:13 UTC

If this doesn’t work out, the bar for repealing a special case rule is no higher than the bar for repealing any other rule.


22-10-2021 19:37:26 UTC

Getting repealed nearly automatically at the end of a dynasty is a lower bar.

Brendan: he/him

22-10-2021 19:49:54 UTC

I look forward to your vote against, pokes!


22-10-2021 20:01:51 UTC

against Here you go!

Josh: he/they

22-10-2021 20:06:34 UTC


Clucky: he/him

22-10-2021 20:39:12 UTC


dislike that this is on by default

dislike that this forces the Eli Curf to opt out rather than opt in

I’m also not sure this’ll help in the right ways for the dynasties that is on.

it doesn’t really prevent pooling. we already don’t see pools of size 4 or more most of the time.

what it does prevent is smash and grab victories where someone happens to notice that with a bit of help they could pull out a win as long as they rope another person into pulling some levers for them. Which I think is a perfectly reasonable way to win that in many ways is better than just “a trio of three people worked together to push all their stuff through all dynasty long”

redtara: they/them

22-10-2021 20:57:05 UTC

I like the direction this is happening though I do not like that it defaults to on, since I’d really rather pooling turn into an exception rather than the rule.

Brendan: he/him

22-10-2021 20:58:40 UTC

Rare is the rule that is turned off by default, and the most recent dynasty was won by a four-person pool. Preventing pooling is not the intention; creative constraint is the intention. And this does not at all prevent the kind of victory you’re describing—it just requires that you wait 48 hours after you see your opportunity, if your collaborator wants a win share, which as you pointed out in your first comment here is not always the case.

Chiiika: she/her

22-10-2021 21:01:36 UTC


Clucky: he/him

22-10-2021 21:04:44 UTC

Yeah but if you wait 48 hours the smash and grab opportunity might be gone. So I think it does prevent that kind of victory.

Brendan: he/him

22-10-2021 21:05:23 UTC

One other aspect of this proposal that I forgot to put in the comments, and a reason it belongs in Special Case: it interacts with Dynastic Distance to offer a simple switch for whether Eli Curf can join in team victories or not.

Raven1207: he/him

23-10-2021 14:06:34 UTC



23-10-2021 15:21:39 UTC


Kevan: he/him

23-10-2021 16:24:36 UTC

against Mostly per Pokes.

48 hours is also no time at all, with the strange, resignatory energy of BlogNomic endgames: if a cabal pulled off some game-winning trick and said “now we just wait 48 hours before declaring victory, you will notice that nobody else can win in this time”, their rivals would either nod and wait, or vote through a CfJ to speed it along.

Vovix: he/him

23-10-2021 18:45:14 UTC

against Per Clucky, this doesn’t actually stop long-term pooling, but does block the more interesting pooling maneuvers like working together to take advantage of an end game opportunity.


23-10-2021 18:57:12 UTC



23-10-2021 22:34:06 UTC


lemon: she/her

24-10-2021 10:26:21 UTC