Tuesday, October 21, 2008

Proposal: Amok Time

Self-Killed—Rodlen, Leader of the Awesomus Clan

Adminned at 21 Oct 2008 22:22:03 UTC

[ A suggestion for a Duel system, since we’re possibly getting ahead of ourselves. ]

Add a new Dynastic Rule, “Duels”:-

Any Clan Lord may announce a Duel, by posting a blog entry whose title begins “Duel:”.

Any Clansman may step forward to fight in that Duel by posting a comment to it, stating such an intention. The first two Clansmen to do so are considered to be the Duel’s Combatants.

To fight, each Combatant must email a list of ten sequential Combat Moves to the Clan Lord who announced the Duel. Valid Combat Moves are:-

  • Punch.
  • Kick.
  • Grab.
  • Dodge.
  • Surrender.

When a Clan Lord has received a list of ten Combat Moves from each Combatant, he works out the results of the ten Combat Rounds, in sequence. In each Combat Round, the Combatant will perform their specified Combat Move, to the following effect.

  • If one Combatant Punched and the other Kicked, the Punching player is kicked back and takes Damage.
  • If one Combatant Kicked and the other Grabbed, the Kicking player is thrown to the floor and takes Damage.
  • If one Combatant Grabbed and the other Punched, the Grabbing player is intercepted and takes Damage.
  • If a Combatant Surrenders, the Combat ends with that round.

At the end of Combat, the Clansman with the Health nearest to “Superb” (if one exists) is declared the winner, unless one (and only one) Combatant surrendered, in which case the other is automatically the winner. The winner gains 1 Honor.

Once the Combat has been processed, the Clan Lord posts the results in a further comment to the Duel’s blog entry, updates the GNDT stats of the Combatants if required, and the Duel ends.

If “Grabthar’s Hammer” passed, add the following to the Combat Moves:-

  • Use an Item (specifying one of the Items the Clansman was holding when they accepted the Duel).

...and add “and listing the Items they are holding” after “stating such an intention”.



10-21-2008 14:24:32 UTC

for for -> against I like the ten moves at once mechanic, which makes every duel risky, but as this is the stats of the combatants have absolutely no effect on the outcome of the battle.


10-21-2008 14:31:16 UTC

I was thinking they could be used to break ties (highest strength winning simultaneous punches, skill for kicks and reflexes for grabbing), so that you’d know which moves you had the edge with, but I didn’t want to put too much forward at once.


10-21-2008 15:26:26 UTC

Things I like:
Resolving everything with one message
Clan Lords putting out open Duel slots

Things I don’t like:
The absolute symmetry so far
The lack of a way to stuff a Dodge
The fact that you don’t know what state you or your opponent are in when you decide to surrender.



10-21-2008 15:38:02 UTC

Needs work:
- Why _ten_ moves: isn’t a lower number sufficient, and doesn’t it make a lot of work for the Clan Lord?
- Dodges have no effect.
- There isn’t really a system in place to email the Clan Lord: should a rule specify a munged email address to be used for this purpose?


10-21-2008 15:38:36 UTC

Also, a combat doesn’t end even if one of the participants becomes Dead in the middle.


10-21-2008 15:51:49 UTC

Ten was an arbitrary number; it’s long enough to really hurt people, and I don’t think it’s much more work than a lower one, once the Clan Lord has done all the paperwork of blog posts and email collection.

Dodges are (currently) bulletproof for guaranteeing you won’t get hurt in a given round. (In fact, they’re outright better than Surrendering, in every situation, so that would need tweaking.)

And combat doesn’t break if anyone dies, you just end up punching a corpse for a few rounds.

I’m assuming that the future weapons from Grabthar’s Hammer will do the most to add asymmetry and tactic-stuffing.


10-21-2008 16:03:13 UTC

Actually, I suppose the Dead thing is a bit ambiguous; “Dead Clansmen may not take any action defined by a Dynastic Rule”, but arguably the Clan Lord is just taking an action on their behalf. So that would need a fix.


10-21-2008 16:27:15 UTC



10-21-2008 16:28:21 UTC

Oh, and private messages would work better than e-mail, I believe.


10-21-2008 16:32:59 UTC

Do private messages get sent out as email? Is there a setting that some people might have switched off? I wasn’t entirely sure.


10-21-2008 16:47:48 UTC

Question 1: No.

Question 2: You can block PMs from specific players, but who would?


10-21-2008 17:37:49 UTC


1) Make it pms instead of email.
2) Have a penalty if the combatants do not send the list of moves.  (This was the problem with the last duel proposal.)
3) Have the duel end immediately if one Clansman dies.
4) Do not allow the Clan Lord who anounced the duel to fight in the duel.
5) Have stats factor in somehow along with rewards for winning in the form of raising stats.
6) Have some way to become alive again once you are dead (such as resetting all your stats).
7) Make dodging do something but have some chance of failure.

You might even consider making it rounds where each round, the combatants pm their moves for that round to the Clan Lord, then the Clan Lord makes comments to the post once he receives both combatants moves.  This would put more turn-by-turn strategy instead of just guessing at when you might be close to dying.


10-21-2008 17:44:24 UTC

I suggest that:
“In each Combat Round, the Combatant will perform their specified Combat Move, to the following effect”
be revised to read:
“In each Combat Round, the Combatant will perform their specified Combat Move, to the following effect (subject to any other Rules or Gamestate Documents that require a different result)”


10-21-2008 17:53:01 UTC

against  against against  Self-kill.

Some of these things are necessary fixes and some of them are ideas for greater details. I’ll repropose a fixed version of it later or tomorrow, if nobody else gets there first.

Isn’t “subject to other rules” implicit, though?


10-21-2008 18:30:30 UTC


Another suggestion: in the hook to Grobthar’s Hammer, you may want for the phrase “Use an Item (specifying one of the Items the Clansman was holding when they accepted the Duel).” to be limited to Items that the gamestate provides may be used in duels (some items might be weapons so it would make sense for a Clansman to have to expressly state that he is using it, other items might be things such as armor that are assumed to be “in use” for as long as they are carried, or things such as a training manual that might be sensibly “used” as a non-duel action.


10-21-2008 20:05:50 UTC


I like the idea of making all the moves in advance. Maybe when the Clan Lord posts the Duel he specifies how many rounds will the duel last instead of a fixed number? I was also toying in my mind with the idea of somehow “stateless” combat, so that fights do not take long to resolve, and this kinda fits in, but we will have to work in the stat factors and possibly honor too.