Wednesday, August 19, 2020

Proposal: Encyclopedia Ganymedia

Fewer than a quorum not voting against. Failed 1 vote to 6 by Kevan.

Adminned at 21 Aug 2020 10:51:03 UTC

Add the following to the end of the rule called “Animals, Vegetables and Minerals”:

A Discovery is said to be Understood if either every piece of Equipment has a known Effect on it, or every possible Effect is known to be caused by using at least one piece of Equipment on it; otherwise it is Not Understood.

Add the following to the end of the rule called “Locations”:

A Location is said to be Understood if every Discovery that is there is Understood; otherwise it is Not Understood.

Add a new rule to the ruleset, called Understanding:

Locations and Discoveries can be Understood. If every Location on New Ganymede is Understood then New Ganymede is Understood; otherwise it is Not Understood. If New Ganymede, a Location or a Discovery is Understood but then ceases to meet the criteria to be Understood then it immediately ceases to be Understood.

If New Ganymede is Understood then the Pathfinder with the highest Prestige has achieved Victory.

I think that this is worded tightly enough to be not subject to an instant scam? I encourage close reading. No scam by me is intended.

Comments

Kevan: he/him

19-08-2020 13:54:59 UTC

Why the “next sentence is flavour text” dance instead of just saying “If New Ganymede is Understood, the Pathfinder with the highest Prestige has achieved Victory”?

derrick: he/him

19-08-2020 14:04:53 UTC

Prestige is all about grinding. I strongly object to that. We need a more complex victory condition

Josh: Observer he/they

19-08-2020 14:12:45 UTC

@Kevan I kinda feel like keeping the word “victory” as flavor text until we need it is safer and given that I like to scam I also like to throw in security theatre when I’m really genuinely trying not to scam

@derrick Prestige is currently about grinding but I think we can come up with better and more creative ways to earn it. It’s clearly the “score” metaphor for the time being

Kevan: he/him

19-08-2020 14:26:59 UTC

It’s riskier: an additional step of “when X, make Y stop being flavour text; when Y is not flavour text Z happens” just adds another vector for a scam - if you can later rearrange the order of those paragraphs, insert a new rule break in between them, change how flavour text is interpreted, etc. If someone pulled a scam to make New Ganymede understood straight away, the flavour text clause would make no difference to that.

derrick: he/him

19-08-2020 14:35:05 UTC

I don’t think coming up with a better way to grind is the answer. I like prestige with the “cannot win” clause because it make it clear that prestige gave you perks, but wasn’t actually a scoring mechanism

Josh: Observer he/they

19-08-2020 14:47:02 UTC

@Kevan Changed in line with your suggestion.

@derrick Not much I can do about your objection, really. I’m not sure what it is that you’re looking for - saying that Prestige is always going to be a grind seems to imply that you want Victory to be tied to something other than a numerical stat, which is fair but I think a bit beyond the scope of a proposal like this.

Kevan: he/him

19-08-2020 14:53:18 UTC

I’d also be happier to see some clarification that all these things are not understood by default, which our usual defaulting appendix rule isn’t great at covering (it does numbers and strings and lists, but not binary true/falses).

Josh: Observer he/they

19-08-2020 14:56:39 UTC

@Kevan Thank you; that change is made.

derrick: he/him

19-08-2020 14:57:51 UTC

Mostly I’d like prestige to avoid being the default victory condition. We could say a random pathfinder is chosen, for instance.

Kevan: he/him

19-08-2020 16:53:28 UTC

against I’m opening my voting with caution of an early victory conditions, particularly one that comes with untested extra wiring that may well immediately light up with “New Ganymede is Understood” when plugged in.

(Determining “if every piece of Equipment has a known Effect” when Equipment has defined Effects which may be Unknown definitely raises some Rumsfeldian questions: if we know that something has an Effect called Unknown, is that Effect known?)

Conceptually I like this a lot as an endgame trigger, though.

Madrid:

19-08-2020 16:58:14 UTC

against because I didn’t intend Prestige to grant victory

derrick: he/him

19-08-2020 17:10:00 UTC

against per Cuddlebeam

Raven1207: he/they

20-08-2020 13:45:27 UTC

against

Riggdan: he/him

20-08-2020 16:48:54 UTC

against

Bais:

21-08-2020 03:14:06 UTC

against I like the idea of tying victory condition with exploration mechanics, it’s very thematic, but I’m not sure I like prestige determining victory.