Monday, March 15, 2021

Call for Judgment: Linguine

Failed 6-2. Josh

Adminned at 15 Mar 2021 22:23:04 UTC

Fail all other pending CfJs. Add the following to the beginning of rule 2.1:

The rest of this rule is flavour text.

Add the following to the dynastic ruleset as a new rule, called After the Bell:


At any time, the Doge may publicly randomly determine a winner from the electors called Clucky, pokes, Jumble and Kevan, by rolling a DICE96, where on a 1-26 the winner will be Pokes, on a 27-50 the winner will be Clucky, on a 51-73 the winner will be Jumble, and on a 74-96 the winner will be Kevan.

The winner has achieved victory. No other elector has achieved victory in this dynasty; if they have then their victory is removed.

End any ongoing hiatuses.


Clucky: he/him

15-03-2021 19:04:25 UTC

I don’t think this is fair to Kevan. He made the point that he shouldn’t be punished for your mistakes, and I think that is a valid one.

Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 19:10:01 UTC

“Punished” feels like a lot. There was an illegal, unresolvable error in the rules; it’s been in there all dynasty; many of us voted for it; and it’s a Nomic. What’s the point of this game if you’re surprising gambit turns out not to work due to a malign rule interaction?

This just doesn’t strike me as an issue of fairness.

Clucky: he/him

15-03-2021 19:14:14 UTC

(to be clear punished is my word, not his)

“surprising gambit turns out not to work due to a malign rule interaction” is part of nomic

“surprising gambit turns out not to work due someone else making a mistake, and so a roll you thought went your way didn’t”... to me that’s less a part of nomic. If you mess up your own rolls fine, you shouldn’t have messed up your own rolls live with the consequences. But if the emperor makes mistakes, I understand the desire to mitigate them in a way that has as minimal changes as possible.

Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 19:15:47 UTC

I’m not talking about a mistake, here; I’m ambivalent about the DICE1000 / DICE96 issue. The dice roll is invalid because it was a dynastic action in a hiatus. That’s only my mistake in the sense that it was everybody’s mistake: we had a victory mechanic that was busted.

Clucky: he/him

15-03-2021 19:24:23 UTC

but the same reasoning holds there. you already rolled for the winner. Sure, you should’ve waited, but in the same way we went “those rumors should’ve been story posts, lets say they are valid” or “Josh improperly evaluated Proposte, lets retroactively make how he did evaluate them okay” I think its fire to go “we rolled too soon, but still uphold the result of the roll”

Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 19:26:09 UTC

Sure. I don’t agree. Those examples you raised wouldn’t have changed any outcomes. This example has big consequences so the threshold for brushing past it feels higher.

Kevan: he/him

15-03-2021 19:29:48 UTC

(I think “the winner” might default alphabetically to Brendan in the time before the random selection is made, here.)

Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 19:34:08 UTC

I’m not sure that being the winner is a game variable in that way?

Kevan: he/him

15-03-2021 19:40:09 UTC

And yes, “punished for the Emperor’s mistake” isn’t something I’ve said or felt here, but we should be avoiding any sense of that, for the sake of Emperors as much as anyone. I’d certainly prefer Emperors to feel that the group’s reaction to them accidentally pasting the wrong file and giving away werewolf identities would always be “oh no, how can we fix this and continue the game fairly?” rather than “ha ha, great, humans win”.

Clucky: he/him

15-03-2021 19:45:06 UTC

What are the “big consequences here”?

It seems like you’re going “I shouldn’t have made this random selection. Now go make a very similar random selection” which, if we’re doing, I think its fairer to Kevan to use your original random selection.

Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 19:50:16 UTC

@Clucky Someone winning, which is literally the biggest concequence an action entirely contained within a game can have

I think we’re at the stage where the only way to settle this is by the consensus of the group? Time to get some votes cast I reckon.

Brendan: he/him

15-03-2021 19:50:27 UTC

I like the part where I’m alphabetically first.

Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 19:52:08 UTC

I’m “aosher” on Twitter because I used to be Josher but had to change it to aosher to win a game.

Lulu: she/her

15-03-2021 19:52:17 UTC


Zack: he/him

15-03-2021 19:52:46 UTC

I think, to be fair, we should just give it to the person who’s alphabetically last…

Clucky: he/him

15-03-2021 19:54:45 UTC

okay yeah I agree that we need an answer for this one way or another. personally I just feel the “uphold the role” is the fairer approach

are you worried about what might happen if other proposals pass between this getting enacted and you selecting the winner, or you selecting the winner and the winner posting their DoV?

Zack: he/him

15-03-2021 19:54:46 UTC


Clucky: he/him

15-03-2021 19:55:25 UTC

well given there has already been votes on this so we can’t change it against

Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 19:56:17 UTC

@Clucky I’ve vetoed the pending propsals.

Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 19:57:38 UTC

I think whatever happens we’re at the end of this dynasty, we’re in hiatus until a CfJ undoes it and I don’t think any CfJ will pass that restores the status quo ante

Clucky: he/him

15-03-2021 19:59:05 UTC

yes but if this passes we leave hiatus, and so someone else can make a new proposal that say, replaces “Clucky” with “Brendan”

Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 20:02:36 UTC

Which will only pass if everyone votes for it, I don’t veto it, and also I go awol for 12 hours, which is possible but not, I think, very likely, and is also much harder than someone making a CfJ right now that says “lol Brendan wins”, given that I can’t veto it and it doesn’t have to wait at all.


15-03-2021 20:25:47 UTC


Kevan: he/him

15-03-2021 20:30:21 UTC



15-03-2021 20:42:53 UTC

I unidle for


15-03-2021 21:47:32 UTC


Josh: he/they

15-03-2021 22:17:03 UTC

Cov against per Bucky

Lulu: she/her

15-03-2021 22:20:13 UTC

against I mean, all that really matters is the other rule now

Lulu: she/her

15-03-2021 22:20:44 UTC