I don’t think this is fair to Kevan. He made the point that he shouldn’t be punished for your mistakes, and I think that is a valid one.

“Punished” feels like a lot. There was an illegal, unresolvable error in the rules; it’s been in there all dynasty; many of us voted for it; and it’s a Nomic. What’s the point of this game if you’re surprising gambit turns out not to work due to a malign rule interaction?

This just doesn’t strike me as an issue of fairness.

(to be clear punished is my word, not his)

“surprising gambit turns out not to work due to a malign rule interaction” is part of nomic

“surprising gambit turns out not to work due someone else making a mistake, and so a roll you thought went your way didn’t”... to me that’s less a part of nomic. If you mess up your own rolls fine, you shouldn’t have messed up your own rolls live with the consequences. But if the emperor makes mistakes, I understand the desire to mitigate them in a way that has as minimal changes as possible.

I’m not talking about a mistake, here; I’m ambivalent about the DICE1000 / DICE96 issue. The dice roll is invalid because it was a dynastic action in a hiatus. That’s only my mistake in the sense that it was everybody’s mistake: we had a victory mechanic that was busted.

but the same reasoning holds there. you already rolled for the winner. Sure, you should’ve waited, but in the same way we went “those rumors should’ve been story posts, lets say they are valid” or “Josh improperly evaluated Proposte, lets retroactively make how he did evaluate them okay” I think its fire to go “we rolled too soon, but still uphold the result of the roll”

Sure. I don’t agree. Those examples you raised wouldn’t have changed any outcomes. This example has big consequences so the threshold for brushing past it feels higher.

(I think “the winner” might default alphabetically to Brendan in the time before the random selection is made, here.)

I’m not sure that being the winner is a game variable in that way?

And yes, “punished for the Emperor’s mistake” isn’t something I’ve said or felt here, but we should be avoiding any sense of that, for the sake of Emperors as much as anyone. I’d certainly prefer Emperors to feel that the group’s reaction to them accidentally pasting the wrong file and giving away werewolf identities would always be “oh no, how can we fix this and continue the game fairly?” rather than “ha ha, great, humans win”.

What are the “big consequences here”?

It seems like you’re going “I shouldn’t have made this random selection. Now go make a very similar random selection” which, if we’re doing, I think its fairer to Kevan to use your original random selection.

@Clucky Someone winning, which is literally the biggest concequence an action entirely contained within a game can have

I think we’re at the stage where the only way to settle this is by the consensus of the group? Time to get some votes cast I reckon.

I like the part where I’m alphabetically first.

I’m “aosher” on Twitter because I used to be Josher but had to change it to aosher to win a game.

I think, to be fair, we should just give it to the person who’s alphabetically last…

okay yeah I agree that we need an answer for this one way or another. personally I just feel the “uphold the role” is the fairer approach

are you worried about what might happen if other proposals pass between this getting enacted and you selecting the winner, or you selecting the winner and the winner posting their DoV?

well given there has already been votes on this so we can’t change it

@Clucky I’ve vetoed the pending propsals.

I think whatever happens we’re at the end of this dynasty, we’re in hiatus until a CfJ undoes it and I don’t think any CfJ will pass that restores the status quo ante

yes but if this passes we leave hiatus, and so someone else can make a new proposal that say, replaces “Clucky” with “Brendan”

Which will only pass if everyone votes for it, I don’t veto it, and also I go awol for 12 hours, which is possible but not, I think, very likely, and is also much harder than someone making a CfJ right now that says “lol Brendan wins”, given that I can’t veto it and it doesn’t have to wait at all.

I unidle

Cov per Bucky

I mean, all that really matters is the other rule now

*cfj