Friday, July 30, 2021

Proposal: Merit Me (Appendix)

Timed out and failed, 1-1. Josh

Adminned at 01 Aug 2021 20:27:37 UTC

Add a new rule to “Gamestate Tracking” called “Meta Gamestate”

Some Gamestate Information is tracked across multiple dynasties. This includes all gamestate information defined in this rule, which is known as Meta Gamestate (information tracked across multiple dynasties not defined in this rule is not Meta Gamestate). All Meta Gamestate is tracked on the “Meta Gamestate” wiki page. Meta Gamestate for idle Vampire Lords is not tracked, but when a Vampire Lord is unidled, their personal Meta Gamestate retains the last legally endowed values it had, if they are still valid even if they did not go Idle in the same Dynasty.

Each Vampire Lord has a non-negative integer number of Merits which are a piece of Meta Gamestate. Merits are designed to track dynasties in which a Vampire Lord came close but did not achieve victory. A Vampire Lord to be Meritorious if and only if the dynastic rules declare them as such. When a DoV is enacted each Meritorious Vampire Lord earns a Merit (this happens after the Vampire Lord who posted the DoV becomes Richardo von Nestor)

Each Vampire Lord has a non-negative integer number of Assists which are a piece of Meta Gamestate. Assists are designed to track dynasties in which a Vampire Lord assisted another Vampire Lord in achieving victory. When a Vampire Lord posts an ascension address, they may reward one assist to any Vampire Lord (other than themselves) whom, during the most recent dynasty, they believe played an important role in them becoming the new Richardo Von Nestor.

If is still the 15th dynasty of Josh, add the following to the rule “Victory”

A Vampire Lord is Meritorious if there exists no Vampire Lords who have more Blood Mana Crystals than they do.

I donno if this needs to ever needs to be more than just stat tracking but I think it might be fun to start tracking “played a good game/got second place” and “helped with the win”


Josh: he/they

30-07-2021 18:19:17 UTC

This knocks out favours, but also potentially whether or not players are idle?

Kevan: City he/him

30-07-2021 18:36:52 UTC

Merits are for those who “came close but did not achieve victory”, but the victor also gets one?

I’m certainly interested in tracking “got Xth place”, but we’re already tracking “helped with the win” in more detail at the History of Victories, where pools are recorded in full, as best we can establish them.

Clucky: he/him

30-07-2021 18:44:13 UTC

@Josh I’ve fixed it to make it clear that only stuff in meta gamestate is meta gamestate.

@Kevan in theory I suppose that could happen depending on how the Meritorious clause is worded.

In this case, the winner will not be a Vampire Lord, and thus cannot be Meritorious. (also means if Lemon has 7 BMC and Chiiika has 8, and Chiiika wins, Lemon is still Meritorious)

To, tracking “got xth place” feels a bit too hard to continually tack. “Got close” feels a lot easier.

Kevan: City he/him

30-07-2021 18:55:35 UTC

The winner would still be be a Vampire Lord, I think: even with Dynastic Distance active (which it may not be), “Richardo von Nestor is not a Vampire Lord” only applies to dynastic rules, not appendix.

It doesn’t seem hard to track “and Clucky was the 2nd closest, and Jumble was the 3rd closest, and…” if you’re ruling that BMC count at the end of this dynasty is a measure of how close anyone got to victory. Perhaps it’s harsh to take it all the way down to measuring last place, but at least the top half of the scoreboard seems worth recording, if we’re setting up a yardstick to measure it by.

Clucky: he/him

30-07-2021 19:00:24 UTC

“A Vampire Lord is Meritorious if there exists no Vampire Lords who have more Blood Mana Crystals than they do.” is getting added to the dynastic rules.

I’m not convinced every dynasty will have a clear “first place” “second place” etc…. so while its still good to preserve gamestate like that, I think tracking near wins is better in the long term as its more adaptable to any dynasty style

Kevan: City he/him

30-07-2021 19:13:56 UTC

Ah, got it.

Seems like proof by induction that if you can pick a Meritorious player out of the crowd, you can rank the whole group. (Just knock that player out then recalculate who would be Meritorious now, and there’s your second place, then knock them out, etc.)

But I think any dynasty can have a simple but meaningful ranking system superimposed if it needs one - we’ve certainly done that with werewolf dynasties in the past, as a way to resolve “human team wins, but… which individual human achieves victory?”

Clucky: he/him

30-07-2021 19:17:55 UTC

Josh 14 you could probably have put everyone else in the winning faction as Meritorious, but hard to rank anyone outside of that.

Lemon 1, you could make everyone who escapes Meritorious, but hard to rank anyone outside of that… I guess maybe use World Data?

So I’m not convinced every dynasty can have a real ranking system. Some probably can’t even have a clear “runner up” definition. But just ignoring the merit system in those seems easier than trying to apply a ranking system to other dynasties.


30-07-2021 19:48:58 UTC

I think the Meta Gamestate page is unnecessary. We can just have dynastic rules that say they aren’t repealed at the end of the dynasty and make special provision for idle players.

Clucky: he/him

30-07-2021 19:51:26 UTC

I’d rather not clutter the dynastic rules. Also you put it there, people in future dynasties could use favor to gain merits which is kinda silly.

Josh: he/they

31-07-2021 08:03:41 UTC