lmao

This was a bad solution that did not actually solve the problem its trying to solve (as you can still, as emperor, trade favors for future blognomic favors) while creating other problems (no more early scam/hand the game back to the original emperor) back when yo first proposed it

none of that has changed

[Clucky] I know you missed some of the last game, but this limitation didn’t solve the problem last dynasty because it was voted down. The group chose to instead enact the opposite, saying that Emperor team wins would be good, actually, and then didn’t like it when the Emperor tried a move towards a team win.

I wouldn’t have vetoed TyGuy’s proposal if this rule was in place. I wouldn’t have tried a future favour-trade either. I don’t see the connection there, why the threat of future favour-trading means that we should just allow Emperor team wins.

I don’t think the early-scam problem is a real one. It happened once, ten years ago, and the cause of it (dynastic rules defaulting to remaining rather than being repealed) was immediately fixed, ten years ago. If in another ten years we have a different problem where we urgently need to reassign the Emperor role back to the previous Emperor during an Interregum, we could just CfJ it.

Clucky, I tend to agree, but the fact that the special case rule now exists makes this proposal an improvement, for the time being. The underlying problem is maybe not resolved but we’re better to have this language out of the core if it’s going to be in a special case rule as well.

@Kevan I’m not sure why you keep saying that people “[said] that Emperor team wins would be good”. I don’t believe that people ever said such a thing.

People instead said that handing the mantle back off to the emperor is sometimes an okay tactic.

If we want to ban emperor team wins, we should ban emperor team wins. and I agree that we should be emperor team wins.

However, this does not ban emperor team wins.

(I am not against Emperor team wins)

@Josh so why are you voting for this? What does it accomplish?

I might be reading the room wrong, but while I am in favour of emperor team wins, quorum is not. Under those circumstances I’m happy with this fix, which, along with Malign Emperors, preserves some of the intent while patching a loophole.

[Clucky] Well, I’ll leave you to fight that corner, if you’re saying that we should either ban all versions of something you’re against, or none at all.

But the “Campsite Is In Tents” CfJ has left the ruleset saying that the winner can pass the mantle back to the Emperor if they like, and also that there’s a special, rare, optional rule called “Malign Emperors” that… lets the winner pass the mantle back to the Emperor if they like. This does not make much sense as a ruleset.

I’d rather just remove Malign Emperors I don’t really see the point of it

And then we can actually ban emperors working with other players. Rather than just saying “You can work on a team with other players, they just aren’t allowed to give you back the mantle right away you need to make sure your deal has some longer stakes terms to it”

@Clucky, then let’s see a proposal. I’m willing to vote for a stronger version of banning sneaky Emperor collabs. It could be a Fair Play or a mechanical restriction; I’m on the fence about which is better.

I think we need to ban future Favours in another Proposal tho

  We can discuss future changes as well, but I don’t see a reason not to fix this particular inconsistency.