Friday, October 22, 2021

Proposal: Redismantling [Core]

Reached quorum 9 votes to 1 with 1 unresolved DEF. Enacted by Kevan.

Adminned at 24 Oct 2021 09:58:29 UTC

In “Victory and Ascension”, replace:-

If the game is in an Interregnum then the new Eli Curf must either Pass the Mantle, by making a post naming another Realtor - in which case the Eli Curf ceases to be the Eli Curf and the Realtor so named becomes the Eli Curf - or start a new dynasty by completing the following Atomic Action:


If the game is in an Interregnum then the new Eli Curf must either Pass the Mantle (by making a post naming a Realtor who was not the last dynasty’s Eli Curf, in which case the passing Realtor ceases to be the Eli Curf and the Realtor so named becomes the Eli Curf) or start a new dynasty by completing the following Atomic Action:

Coming back to this per comments on This Campsite Is In Tents: that CfJ didn’t actually make Imperial mantle-passes illegal, it just removed the clarification that they were legal. Let’s actually change the rule to say that they simply can’t be performed when the Malign Emperors rule is switched off.


Josh: he/they

22-10-2021 12:24:44 UTC


redtara: they/them

22-10-2021 15:20:03 UTC

for lmao

Brendan: he/him

22-10-2021 15:22:07 UTC


Clucky: he/him

22-10-2021 15:26:31 UTC


This was a bad solution that did not actually solve the problem its trying to solve (as you can still, as emperor, trade favors for future blognomic favors) while creating other problems (no more early scam/hand the game back to the original emperor) back when yo first proposed it

none of that has changed

Kevan: he/him

22-10-2021 16:22:57 UTC

[Clucky] I know you missed some of the last game, but this limitation didn’t solve the problem last dynasty because it was voted down. The group chose to instead enact the opposite, saying that Emperor team wins would be good, actually, and then didn’t like it when the Emperor tried a move towards a team win.

I wouldn’t have vetoed TyGuy’s proposal if this rule was in place. I wouldn’t have tried a future favour-trade either. I don’t see the connection there, why the threat of future favour-trading means that we should just allow Emperor team wins.

I don’t think the early-scam problem is a real one. It happened once, ten years ago, and the cause of it (dynastic rules defaulting to remaining rather than being repealed) was immediately fixed, ten years ago. If in another ten years we have a different problem where we urgently need to reassign the Emperor role back to the previous Emperor during an Interregum, we could just CfJ it.

redtara: they/them

22-10-2021 16:29:16 UTC

Clucky, I tend to agree, but the fact that the special case rule now exists makes this proposal an improvement, for the time being. The underlying problem is maybe not resolved but we’re better to have this language out of the core if it’s going to be in a special case rule as well.

Clucky: he/him

22-10-2021 16:39:59 UTC

@Kevan I’m not sure why you keep saying that people “[said] that Emperor team wins would be good”. I don’t believe that people ever said such a thing.

People instead said that handing the mantle back off to the emperor is sometimes an okay tactic.

If we want to ban emperor team wins, we should ban emperor team wins. and I agree that we should be emperor team wins.

However, this does not ban emperor team wins.

Josh: he/they

22-10-2021 16:41:50 UTC

(I am not against Emperor team wins)

Clucky: he/him

22-10-2021 16:51:39 UTC

@Josh so why are you voting for this? What does it accomplish?

Josh: he/they

22-10-2021 17:04:34 UTC

I might be reading the room wrong, but while I am in favour of emperor team wins, quorum is not. Under those circumstances I’m happy with this fix, which, along with Malign Emperors, preserves some of the intent while patching a loophole.

Kevan: he/him

22-10-2021 17:04:36 UTC

[Clucky] Well, I’ll leave you to fight that corner, if you’re saying that we should either ban all versions of something you’re against, or none at all.

But the “Campsite Is In Tents” CfJ has left the ruleset saying that the winner can pass the mantle back to the Emperor if they like, and also that there’s a special, rare, optional rule called “Malign Emperors” that… lets the winner pass the mantle back to the Emperor if they like. This does not make much sense as a ruleset.

Clucky: he/him

22-10-2021 17:09:36 UTC

I’d rather just remove Malign Emperors I don’t really see the point of it

And then we can actually ban emperors working with other players. Rather than just saying “You can work on a team with other players, they just aren’t allowed to give you back the mantle right away you need to make sure your deal has some longer stakes terms to it”


22-10-2021 17:22:58 UTC

for @Clucky, then let’s see a proposal. I’m willing to vote for a stronger version of banning sneaky Emperor collabs. It could be a Fair Play or a mechanical restriction; I’m on the fence about which is better.

Chiiika: she/her

22-10-2021 21:02:43 UTC

for I think we need to ban future Favours in another Proposal tho

Raven1207: he/they

23-10-2021 14:05:03 UTC


Lulu: she/her

23-10-2021 15:17:45 UTC


Vovix: he/him

23-10-2021 17:24:01 UTC

for  We can discuss future changes as well, but I don’t see a reason not to fix this particular inconsistency.


24-10-2021 09:57:03 UTC