Saturday, October 06, 2012

Proposal: Text Homework

Timed out and passed, 3-0. Josh

Adminned at 08 Oct 2012 12:13:18 UTC

If the Proposal titled “Pre-Position” (citation) failed, ignore all the white text from the following Proposal.

In the rule “Prefecture”, replace

The Prefect has a weak veto power. They may use it by casting a VETO icon as their vote on a Proposal, but it only counts as a veto if the Professor comments on the same proposal with the word “ratified” written in Purple ink. The Prefect also has a mild influence on deferential votes; votes of DEFERENTIAL are considered to be the same as the Prefect’s at a rate of 0.5 per DEFERENTIAL vote (i.e., x DEF votes count as x/2 votes of the same type as the Prefect). This effect is only in place on a proposal while the Professor has not voted for that proposal; if the Professor has voted on that proposal then DEF votes are resolved normally and the Prefect’s vote is ignored for the purposes of resolving the proposal.

with

The Prefect has a weak veto power. They may use it by casting a VETO icon as their vote on a Proposal, but it only counts as a veto if the Professor comments on the same proposal with the word “ratified” written between two “:” signs. The Prefect also has a mild influence on deferential votes; votes of DEFERENTIAL are considered to be the same as the Prefect’s at a rate of 0.5 per DEFERENTIAL vote (i.e., x DEF votes count as x/2 votes of the same type as the Prefect). This effect is only in place on a proposal while the Professor has not voted for that proposal; if the Professor has voted on that proposal then DEF votes are resolved normally and the Prefect’s vote is ignored for the purposes of resolving that proposal’s DEFERENTIAL votes.

In the Rule “The Classroom”, replace

Whenever the Professor stands over a Desk, all the Desks next to it are said to be in the Professor’s Area of Influence

with

Whenever the Professor stands over a Desk, this Desk and all the Desks next to it — just like all the Desks next to the one the Prefect currently occupies — are said to be in the Professor’s Area of Influence

In the Sub Rule “[BUL] Bully”, replace

When a Student is Cornered and any of the Desks surrounding him are inside the PAoI, he may make a new Post (invoking this Sub Rule by name) claiming to have “snitched the bullies to the Professor”. If he does that, he Scores, and all the Students occupying Desks next to him have their Desk value set to a new random value. If this new value ever makes two Students occupy the same Desk, it is randomly generated again.

with

When a Student is Cornered and any of the Desks surrounding him are inside the PAoI, he may make a new Post (invoking this Sub Rule by name) claiming to have “snitched the bullies to the Professor”. If he does that, he Scores, and all the Students occupying Desks next to him have their Desk value set to a new random value. If this new value ever makes two Students occupy the same Desk, it is randomly generated again. Also, if the PAoI responsible by the scoring of the Cornered Student was the one generated by the Prefect, the Prefect that generated it Scores.

This Proposal may not be regarded as a Correction for the purpose of the Rule “[COR] Corrections”.

In white, both the Purple Ink and the Prefect’s vote problems were corrected.
In black, giving a little more power to the Prefect, and making classroom gameplay more dinamic.
Also, correcting an error in the PAoI description: the Desk the Professor is currently in should also be counted as in the PAoI.

Also, I liked the correction’s format, so I’ll still be using it even if I — eventually — score (:

posted by IceFromHell at 06 Oct 2012 18:36:16 UTC Comments (8)

Comments

Josh: Observer he/they

07-10-2012 07:08:18 UTC

for “just like all the Desks next to the one the Prefect currently occupies” may not be strong enough to have that power explicitly made clear in the ruleset, but that’s an easy enough fix.

Cpt_Koen:

08-10-2012 02:13:25 UTC

“This Proposal may not be regarded as a Correction for the purpose of the Rule “[COR] Corrections”.”
I haven’t been following the dynasty, but I doubt this has any effect at all. The only effect of Proposals is to change the Ruleset or Gamestate if they are enacted, so unless we add a “It does not state that it is not a Correction” condition to the rule “[COR] Correction”, I don’t believe a Proposal can protect itself like that.

IceFromHell:

08-10-2012 02:45:32 UTC

[Josh] Like a sub rule to cover it? Or maybe another paragraph in “The Prefecture” rule?

[Cpt_Koen] Are you sure? Technically, it’s a change in the Gamestate tracking of that Rule, to be performed once, for a determined Proposal. It seems fine to me.

Kevan: he/him

08-10-2012 10:39:30 UTC

I think Koen’s right. Whether or not a Proposal is a Correction isn’t a piece of gamestate (it’s not “information which the Ruleset regulates the alteration of”) - it’s just a true or false check made by Rule 2.7.

If you wanted to make a binding exception, I’d say your proposal would have to enact a rule of “the proposal ‘Text Homework’ is never considered a Correction”. (Otherwise you could make a meaningless proposal now of “IceFromHell is always considered to be on Fire even if other rules contradict this” and then surprise everyone seven dynasties later by meeting its “if a player is on Fire they win” victory condition.)

Josh: Observer he/they

08-10-2012 10:43:38 UTC

I know we disagree periodically about invisible gamestate, Kevan, but I think the “IceFromHell is on Fire” example is basically fine. It’s the central question of whether a proposal can directly change the gamestate or whether it has to go through the ruleset first.

Kevan: he/him

08-10-2012 13:28:45 UTC

Actually, even with the rule-creation exception, this wouldn’t work, because “Where a Proposal would amend the effects of Proposal Enactment, this does not apply to its own enactment unless explicitly stated.” - Scoring for a Correction is part of a proposal’s enactment.

for The approach of this proposal looks too weird not to be a scam - IceFromHell definitely didn’t want the proposal to count as a Correction, yet used its exact formatting, even with some meaningless Ink - but if there is one, I can’t spot it. (IceFromHell already has a COR Project, so can’t gain another one anyway.)

IceFromHell:

08-10-2012 16:54:05 UTC

[Kevan] First, I’d like to explain the reasoning behind that sentence. About the time I made this Proposal, my other Proposal (the one that made me score COR) alread reached Quorum, so it was pretty much settle that I was alread going to score. I really liked the correction’s format (this ink thing is nice, and a citation always helped me to go back and forth the texts the correction was about) but there is a problem in using it: if this post is considered a correction, under the Rule 2.7 “Students should not vote FOR a Correction unless it proposes substantially the same changes as the Original and it fixes the errors described”. I alread had some trouble with that Paragraph in this Dinasty, so I wanted to avoid it. I’m experimenting with a lot of things in this nomic, but, so far, I’ve not tried a scam. To be honest, I still don’t even know how most of the mechanics in the game resolve, this one we’re discussing as a clear example. I’m not saying I’m not going to try something sooner or later, but definately didn’t tried it yet.
This being said, if I made something in the lines of “IceFromHell doesn’t Score under the rule 2.7 for this Proposal” or even “If IceFromHell would Score under the rule 2.7 for this Proposal, he doesn’t” would it work? And, more importantly, would people still vote against this because of that rule’s paragraph?
“Where a Proposal would amend the effects of Proposal Enactment, this does not apply to its own enactment unless explicitly stated.” Wouldn’t, then, adding something to make it explicity work?
Anyway, next time I think I’ll just leave the citation out.
About the “if” condition for the text’s color: is there a problem with that? It just seemed easier to understand (from the point of view of someone reading it) than an “ignore all the text until(...)”.

Cpt_Koen:

08-10-2012 17:11:36 UTC

[IceFromHell] I assumed making a Proposal a Correction was something the ruleset regulated while the Proposal was still Pending, and in that case your sentence would have no effect (because a Proposal doesn’t affect the Ruleset or Gamestate until it is enacted). But then again I haven’t been following the dynasty nor have read the ruleset in detail,

I would be inclined to agree with Josh - I think the “on Fire” example would work if the proposal was enacted (assuming it’s worded carefully), but I also believe proposals containing such provisions should be voted against on principle.