If a Ladder Word is not a Sin, then it doesn’t have to be in the EFF Wordlist either, so then you get trivial words like “if”, “the”, and so on.

Or does “make the claimed Ladder Word a Sin” prevent using non-EFF Wordlist words because you couldn’t make such a world a Sin? It feels like if it’s not an atomic action, you could still claim the Equity as an action and separately just not make the claimed Ladder Word a Sin since it would be illegal to do so.

I know, this feels like an ais argument. I just want to make sure that the “and” forces those two actions to be one complete action.

proposal

that

@JonathanDark:

“A Nomicer who has a choice in whether to take an action defined by a dynastic rule may not take that action if both of the following conditions are true: a) the action’s effects are limited to changing values tracked in gamestate-tracking entities (such as a wiki page), and b) the action would change one or more of those values to an illegal value.”

I believe that the reason that the ruleset would normally try to prevent claiming something other than an EFF word as a Sin is that it would typically trigger that part of the Appendix – resolving the action would add something other than an EFF word to a variable that’s defined as a list of EFF words.

However, posting a proposal is not something whose “effects are limited to changing values tracked in gamestate-tracking entities”, and as such the protection wouldn’t apply. (This was, IIRC, an intentional decision when writing the Appendix protection, in order to prevent it accidentally making proposals or CFJs illegal.) I am not sure what would happen instead.

As such, I am delaying my vote until “I Rung Back” is quorate, so that we can pass these both at the same time and avoid the whole headache.

It’s also worth noting a time paradox, which (given that unlike most nomics, BlogNomic doesn’t give out automatic wins for paradoxes because it repealed or didn’t include that part of Suber’s ruleset) probably isn’t useful, but it’s fun – if you spend the Disc, then don’t post the Proposal, the Disc spend becomes retroactively illegal (even if you intended at the time of spending the Disc to follow through – say you got distracted). Probably we should make that an Atomic Action so that we have rules for handling the resulting state?

@ais523
Apologies if I don’t quite understand. You note that since posting a proposal is not “limited to changing values tracked in gamestate-tracking entities”, it may not be counted as an illegal action. However, since the Nomicer attempting to claim the word must pay a disc before making their proposal, wouldn’t the spending of the disc count as illegal, since spending a disc is only used for “changing values tracked in gamestate-tracking entities”?

@DoomedIdeas: It depends on whether you count it as one action or two. It’s worded as all one action, which to me implies that the action as a whole implies paying a disc and making a proposal, and although that changes gamestate-tracking entities it does other things too.

You would be correct if it were two actions rather than one, and it isn’t obvious from the wording whether it’s one action or two – I suspect it’s all one (because the whole thing is defined as a “daily action”) but might be wrong.

The ruleset regulates the alteration of proposals and comments, so the content of proposals and comments are gamestate and the blog is a gamestate-tracking entity. Therefore posting proposals and comments are encompassed by “changing values tracked in gamestate-tracking entities”.

The real issue is that the requirement to “make the claimed ladder word a sin” is ambiguous, as Zipfiles implies that a Sin can be defined either by performing the Mill action and using a word from the wordlist in an edit summary, or merely by the word being added to the List of Sins. But either way you slice it, you would be limited to choosing a word from the EFF Wordlist.

Whether the whole paragraph is one action, or it’s two/three separate actions is moot because the “gain the value of the claimed Ladder Word as Equity and make the claimed Ladder Word a Sin” part would stil be illegal so you could never gain equity from this.