Monday, December 22, 2008

Proposal: Hands off my Ruleset!

Times Out. 2 For, 1 Unfulfilled Deferential and 7 Against. Fails. Oze

Adminned at 25 Dec 2008 09:54:39 UTC

In rule 2.3 “Membership” after it says

Whenever a Citizen makes an official post with the text “[Faction]” at the beginning of its subject (Where Faction is replaced by the Faction that the poster is a member of), then that post shall be known as a Faction Post and is considered to be made only within the context of the Ruleset and Gamestate for that Citizen’s Faction. Otherwise, it is considered to be made within the Ruleset and Gamestate of Blognomic as a whole.


Proposals may only change the ruleset of a given faction if they are a proper Faction Post for that faction. Likewise, Faction Posts are not allowed to change the main ruleset or the ruleset of any other faction.


SingularByte: he/him

22-12-2008 20:40:42 UTC

imperial I’m undecided at the moment. On one hand, if someone tries to implement a new system shared by all factions, it becomes extremely difficult. On the other hand, it stops two factions from removing a unique feature of the third just because they disagree with it.

Amnistar: he/him

22-12-2008 21:34:22 UTC


Amnistar: he/him

22-12-2008 21:35:08 UTC

The second sentance is worthless, already true, faction posts are only made within their own rules, the first I disagree with.  I think that at times it would be helpfull, especially if a faction ever has less then 3 people.

Clucky: he/him

22-12-2008 21:38:24 UTC

But there is a) no way from stopping people from messing with other factions and b) no way to prevent someone from basically getting four faction proposals every 24 hours.

Amnistar: he/him

22-12-2008 22:14:05 UTC

Sure, there is a way to stop people from messing with other factions.  Faction Proposals can only affect Faction rulesets.

“that post shall be known as a Faction Post and is considered to be made only within the context of the Ruleset and Gamestate for that Citizen’s Faction”

So yes, you could make a proposal that talked about other factions, but they wouldn’t be part of other faction’s rulesets, elimnating the issue.

As for 4 factions proposals every 24 hours?  Untrue, at most you could do 3, and only if said proposals were passed aftre 12 hours…so…really nothing new compared to other dynasties.

Clucky: he/him

22-12-2008 22:20:23 UTC

Faction Proposals and Non-Faction Proposals are governed by different rulesets, and thus you should be able to have two from each.

Amnistar: he/him

22-12-2008 22:51:34 UTC

No they’re not.  Faction proposals are still proposals, they’re just a subset there-in.  Remember, a proposal is considered a faction proposal, therefor it is still a proposal.


22-12-2008 22:53:18 UTC


arthexis: he/him

22-12-2008 23:57:31 UTC

against This amendment is redundant. On the other hand, I disagree with Amnistar in one thing: because Faction Proposals exist only prom the POV of that Faction, they cannot count towards your normal proposal limit and viceversa.

Amnistar: he/him

23-12-2008 00:13:24 UTC

then they don’t exist period.  Remember, EVERYTHING we do in this is under the core rules, and faction proposals are a specific subset of regular proposals.  If faction proposals cease to be proposals, then they’re not faction proposals either, because then the rules wouldn’t be refering to them.

Darknight: he/him

23-12-2008 00:31:59 UTC



23-12-2008 02:48:38 UTC



23-12-2008 04:52:49 UTC


arthexis: he/him

23-12-2008 05:42:14 UTC

I don’t see them as not existing, but rather in their own little pocket of spacetime. They can only interact as the core rule permits and this is not because the factions are contained WITHIN the core rules, but rather because the core rules say they are themselves included in the faction, but not the other way around.

arthexis: he/him

23-12-2008 05:43:28 UTC

BTW Amni, perhaps we should settle this on a CfJ and let democracy decide which is it that they prefer ? (Multiple proposal queues vs single proposal queue)

Clucky: he/him

23-12-2008 15:40:06 UTC

Take your pick Amni—either victory in a faction counts as victory all around (as the ruleset governing the main rules is exactly the same as the ruleset governing factions)—or proposals are separte (as the ruleset governing the faction rules is a carbon copy of the ruleset governing the main rules)


23-12-2008 17:23:46 UTC



23-12-2008 17:44:45 UTC


Amnistar: he/him

23-12-2008 18:34:50 UTC

clucky, they are two seperate scenarios.  Faction victories are described ONLY in a faction ruleset.  Faction Proposals are described in the main ruleset.