Monday, November 08, 2010

Proposal: Nomich Jr, the second: not quite so new and improved

Fails, at length, 5-10.—Brendan

Adminned at 10 Nov 2010 09:51:45 UTC

Replace rule 2.3 (“Nomich”) by:

Nomich is a sport played by Students. Students who belong to the same Dormitory are always on the same team.

Nomich is played with an ordinary deck of 52 cards. At all times when not playing a game of Nomich, each Dormitory should be holding seven cards. The cards held by each Dormitory should be kept a secret to all other Dormitories and should be tracked by the Headmaster. If, any any time, a Dormitory is holding less than seven cards and is not playing a Nomich, the Headmaster should randomly assign them enough cards that they have a hand of seven, and should then send a private message to all members of that Dormitory telling them the composition of their new hand. The Headmaster must ensure that the same card is not being held by more than one Dormitory at any given time.

Any member of a Dormitory, whose condition must be “Alive”, may challenge another Dormitory to a match of Nomich by making a post to that effect. This Student is known as the “Challenger”. His dormitory is known as the “Challenging team”.

The challenge shall be immediately followed by a comment in the same thread, made by the Challenger, containing his play. A play is a sequence of cards, of any size or composition, from the Dormitory’s hand.

A Dormitory is obliged to accept the first such challenge levelled against it on a Saturday. This dormitory is known as the “Defending team”. One of the members of the Defending team, whose condition must be “Alive”, should post a play in the 24 hours after the challenge is posted, as a comment in the Challenge thread. This Student is known as the “Defender”. The first play posted by the Defending team in a challenge thread is the one that is scored for that match. If the Defending team does not post a play on a Challenge, they are assumed to have played a sequence containing no cards, and the Defender will be the Headmaster.

Once a legal play has been made by both Dormitories, all cards in those plays are removed from the hands of the Dormitories involved. The Headmaster will them refill both hands randomly, as described in the beginning of this rule.

Each Dormitory may play no more than one match of Nomich per day, and a Dormitory may not make a challenge if it is playing a match of Nomich or has already played a match of Nomich that day; nor can a challenge be levelled against a Dormitory that is playing or has played a match of Nomich that day.

The Dormitory whose play scores highest wins the match. It becomes the “Winning team”, and the other dormitory becomes the “Loosing team”. The student who posted the scoring play for the Winning Team is the Winner, and the Student who posted the scoring play for the Loosing team is the Looser. If both Dormitories in a match have the same score, the Headmaster shall randomly choose one of them as the winner of the match.

The score value of any play is adjudged according to the Nomich Ruleset. The Nomich Ruleset is secret and should be known in its entirety only to the Headmaster. The only public rules are listed as subrules to this one.

At the end of each Sunday, or as soon as possible thereafter, the Headmaster should indicate in the Challenge thread which Dormitory won and what each play scored.
A Dormitory who wins a game of Nomich may perform one of the two following actions:
-Add a new rule to the Nomich ruleset by PMing it to the Headmaster; or
-Change the Condition of one Student of the opposing Dormitory to Ghost or Zombie; or
-Remove a grudge that one teacher has against one Student; or
-Remove two grudges that two teachers have against the Winner.

If the first action is undertaken, the Headmaster must appraise the new rule, and may reject it if it contradicts another rule or if it offers an unfair and destabilising advantage to any Dormitory at the expense of any other Dormitory. The Headmaster’s judgement on this matter is final. Any rule thus rejected is lost and the Dormitory who proposed it may not undertake another winners’ action.

Add a subrule to rule 2.3(“Nomich”):

The play with the largest cumulative face value scores 5 points. For the prupose of this rule, an Ace is considered have a face value of 1, a Jack to have a face value of 11, a Queen to have a face value of 12, and a King to have a face value of 13.

If more than half of the EVCs on this proposal contain the word “Cheese”, add another subrule to rule 2.3(“Nomich”):

Any play that contains a Heart, a Spades, a Club and a Diamond card scores 6 points.

Basically, I defined “Challenging team”, “Challenger”, “Defending team”, “Defender”, “Winning team”, “Winner”, “Loosing team”, and “Looser”. I also explicitely declared that the Headmaster had to randomize the cards given to Dormitories, and the defining the Winner out of a Tie had to be random too.

I also added a few actions for the winners (including an example of how the definition of the Winner could be used) because turning someone to a Zombie or a Ghost is quite useless now.

Comments

Greytyphoon:

08-11-2010 19:00:02 UTC

I know it’s redundant, but for I mostly wanted to say “Cheese”.

FuzzyLogic:

08-11-2010 20:09:57 UTC

for

Ambisinister:

08-11-2010 20:18:14 UTC

imperial I’m assuming the fourth option means that the Winner may choose to have two separate teachers remove a single Grudge that they each hold against the winner, as opposed to removing two grudges a piece that each teacher holds (assuming teachers can actually accrue multiple grudges against a single student…).

Roujo: he/him

08-11-2010 20:37:18 UTC

Hmm… I don’t like the fact that a Challenging house must make the first play. The way I see it, that would mean that challenging puts you at a disadvantage since the other team can then make their play accordingly.

Also, I’m not sure I want you to add a Nomich rule since you could be doing it to put your house in a good position for next week.

The “Remove Grudges” winning action is nice though, as is the “randomly chooses” part. Overall, though, I vote against because of the first two points.

Greytyphoon:

08-11-2010 20:42:05 UTC

Just a reminder that you can vote against the Nomich rule without voting against the proposition.

Roujo: he/him

08-11-2010 20:49:49 UTC

I know, but I don’t want the rule to pass without my consent and the best I can do to prevent that is to vote AGAINST. Otherwise, I might help it reach Quorum even though I don’t want the optional clause to pass. =P

Darknight: he/him

08-11-2010 22:27:34 UTC

imperial

Bucky:

08-11-2010 22:38:31 UTC

against Cheese

Roujo: he/him

08-11-2010 23:35:00 UTC

Then there’s the “I don’t want this to pass, but I’ll activate the EVC just in case in does”.

Yeah. =P

William:

09-11-2010 00:32:06 UTC

imperial

Tuzgai:

09-11-2010 01:08:18 UTC

for

Alecto:

09-11-2010 07:43:41 UTC

for

Kevan: he/him

09-11-2010 09:52:23 UTC

for

Thane Q:

09-11-2010 17:16:42 UTC

Cheese for

Brendan: he/him

09-11-2010 18:29:11 UTC

I’m probably deferring to Josh’s judgment on this.

Roujo: he/him

09-11-2010 23:14:56 UTC

I talked to Greytyphoon today, and we noticed something.
Let’s compare the first sentence of the current rule,

“Nomich is a sport played by Students. It may only be played on a Saturday. Students who belong to the same Dormitory are always on the same team.”

to the first sentence of it’s proposed replacement:

“Nomich is a sport played by Students. Students who belong to the same Dormitory are always on the same team.”

Do you notice anything? =P

Brendan: he/him

09-11-2010 23:23:33 UTC

Well, as he pointed out, dorms are only obligated to accept challenges leveled against you on Saturdays.  And I only have to judge winners on Sundays.  A good point nonetheless.

But I did notice something myself, on rereading:  “If the Defending team does not post a play on a Challenge, they are assumed to have played a sequence containing no cards, and the Defender will be the Headmaster.”

I don’t much like the way that’s worded.  Does it mean “Brendan is the Defender” or “the Defender becomes the Headmaster?”  I know that condition is only triggered if the defending team doesn’t play, so in theory there would be no other Defender, but it still seems exploitable.

Roujo: he/him

09-11-2010 23:45:00 UTC

The spirit is probably “Brendan is the Defender”, but yeah: it’s awkwardly worded.

Still, teams could duke it out every day, meaning you’d have to send them more cards each time. Plus, on Sunday, you’d have to judge the backlog of games because they were all legal, and then maybe you’d have to appraise a rule for each battle.

Maybe the Players won’t do it, but I don’t like the fact that they can.

Ambisinister:

09-11-2010 23:47:13 UTC

@ Brendan- Even if the spirit of the rule is your first interpretation (The Headmaster becomes the challenged Dormitory’s Defender) there is an added oddity that I just noticed. Based on the above idea, if the Defending team does not post a play,  then the Headmaster takes on the role of Defender and the Defending team remains the challenged dormitory. Since the Defender is assumed to have played a hand containing no cards, the Defending team will likely lose (unless there is a hidden nomich rule in play that scores hands containing zero cards at 6,000 points). In that case then the Headmaster, as the Defender, is now designated as the “looser.”(sic)

While this doesn’t seem to have any effect yet, it could certainly lead to some odd situations if new proposals create things that happen to the “looser” of a Nomich match.

Alternatively, if there is in fact a hidden Nomich rule like the one I suggested, that would make the Headmaster the Winner, with all of the commiserate options that being the winner would entitle him to.

Roujo: he/him

10-11-2010 02:00:05 UTC

Yeah… Too many oddities…

I urge the Players to vote AGAINST this Proposal so that we can address those. I know that Nomic is supposed to be about better versions of rules, not Proposals, but I think the current rule is better than this one - even though some interesting concepts were introduced.

I thus repeat my vote of against, and again strongly suggest others follow.

Ujalu, the unnecessary.:

10-11-2010 09:47:57 UTC

against

Purplebeard:

10-11-2010 09:59:37 UTC

imperial

Greytyphoon:

10-11-2010 10:30:17 UTC

The last point is not an oddity. It was introduced so that the Headmaster could play Nomich and be the Winner or the Looser. (sic)
It could introduce some interesting mechanics, such as a victory condition stating “When a game of Nomich is played and the Looser is the Headmaster, the Winner wins the game.” Hence payers would do their best to put others on detention/kill them, so they can’t post a play, so the Headmaster will likely be the Looser.

We can fix easily the omission of “A challenge of Nomich can only be levelled on a Saturday”, by a simple proposal. I would have done it earlier, but I already have two pending. Plus, it will jump-start the number of secret rules, making Nomich even more unpredictable. Since those rules will all become active next sunday at the same time, it gives every dormitory a chance to set a few of the rules.

Josh: Observer he/they

10-11-2010 17:10:22 UTC

against

Roujo: he/him

10-11-2010 17:22:07 UTC

Brendan:
11-09-2010 18:29:11 UTC
I’m probably deferring to Josh’s judgment on this.

Do we enact the proposal as soon as it’s eligible? Or do we wait for Brendan to follow Josh’s opinion and fail it? =/

Brendan: he/him

10-11-2010 17:23:28 UTC

It’s not eligible to be enacted, as fewer than half its votes are FOR by my count.

Roujo: he/him

10-11-2010 17:29:33 UTC

Oh… Right. Deferential votes count that way.
*blushes*
Sorry. =P

Kevan: he/him

10-11-2010 17:36:44 UTC

No, they don’t: “If no Headmaster has Voted on a Proposal, a Vote of DEFERENTIAL on that proposal does not count as a Vote for the purposes of rule 1.5.” (Rule 1.4 is actually quite incoherent, we should tidy that up.)

CoV to against in case Brendan doesn’t check in again in the next forty minutes.

Brendan: he/him

10-11-2010 17:48:41 UTC

Oh, huh.  against anyway.