Thursday, July 15, 2021

Proposal: The Comfy Chair

Timed out 3 votes to 1. Enacted by Kevan.

Adminned at 17 Jul 2021 15:13:36 UTC

Change the cost of the Familiar Effect from +3 to -1.

After “When a Vampire Lord carries out an Enchantment they may spend the Shadow cost of a Effect in Puissance and add that Effect to a single room as a temporary effect.” add:-

(Effects which have a negative Shadow cost may not be added in this way.)

Apart from enchanting (which people have been doing more cheaply with exit blocks anyway), it seems mostly a disadvantage for the gang to ignore your new room during the next Crypt Entry.


Clucky: he/him

15-07-2021 14:59:28 UTC

Now that I’ve decided *not* to use this scam:

you should fix this so you also can’t add familiar to Ritual Chambers

Kevan: he/him

15-07-2021 15:07:05 UTC

Appendix already has it covered: “Unless otherwise specified, only positive amounts can be spent, paid, lost, gained, or transferred”.

Josh: he/him

15-07-2021 15:15:59 UTC

I’ll not vote on this but given that Familiar goes away after 1 run I feel like this is basically just a free rebate on room lighting costs - I can’t see that anyone would ever not take it.

Clucky: he/him

15-07-2021 15:16:05 UTC

so why is it needed here? both are using “spend”?

Kevan: he/him

15-07-2021 15:27:40 UTC

Ritual Chamber is “spend X to do Y”, which seems watertight; Enchanting is “spend X and do Y” which someone might feel like arguing as “I do these two things, the first of which has no effect”.

Kevan: he/him

15-07-2021 15:33:23 UTC

[Josh] Maybe. But with all the Secret Passage Maps, Ingresses and high-Energy runs in the air at the moment, having a room locked for the entire next run, just to save 1 Puissance, seems like something a player might kick themselves for.

Clucky: he/him

15-07-2021 16:01:19 UTC

unless you’re trying to place a Sepulchre. In which case locking it for the next run becomes a very good thing.


15-07-2021 17:50:16 UTC

Right, I think the main effect of this is to make Sepulchre construction cheaper. It also lets you pay 2 to make a Dark room temporarily impassable, which could be useful if you expect someone else to construct a room in that location and don’t want to be passable; and if you want to wall off a particular square, it gives you a rebate when constructing the room that walls it off.

I’ve actually been going so far as to word things as “do X; if you do, do Y”; this is as watertight as “do X to do Y” but harder to misinterpret/argue about.

Brendan: he/him

15-07-2021 19:42:05 UTC


Jumble: Chancellor of Tribuna he/him

16-07-2021 01:09:49 UTC

aren’t costs capped af 3?

lemonfanta: Ashen Queen she/her

16-07-2021 01:15:18 UTC

against i agree that adding familiar shouldn’t be easy, but also we’ve seen what negative shadow costs do & we patched them out of the game already!

Kevan: he/him

16-07-2021 08:53:22 UTC

Did we patch negative costs out, or did we just conclude that the couple of “Richardo gets a powerup” effects we tried at the start weren’t net-negative after all?

The Because we’ve been Lighting Rooms all wrong CfJ overreached and silently removed the minimum-cost-1 cap as part of its fix (I guess because we don’t have any negatives right now), but I don’t know what the actual consensus on negatives was.

Jumble: Chancellor of Tribuna he/him

16-07-2021 14:37:22 UTC