Monday, June 13, 2011

Proposal: The Victory Condition II.b

Self-killed. -Purplebeard

Adminned at 15 Jun 2011 06:58:23 UTC

Change the first three words in Rule “Farmland” to “Some Farmers have”.
Change rule “The House” to:

Every Plot contains a house. For the purposes of movement, a house is considered to be a square to the left of, and adjacent to all squares in the first column of its plot.
If a zombie at any time moves into a house, the Plot where the house lay is Overrun.
When a Plot is Overrun, its owner loses all the Sun they own, and set their Juice to 10.
In addition, one of these two things shall happen:
* If the Owner of the Zombie that moved into the house already owns one or more Plots, the owner of the Overrun Plot loses all their Wood and all their Plots are removed from the Garden Patch.
* Otherwise, the Owner of the Zombie becomes the new owner of the Plot. They swap Wood values with the former owner of the Plot, and gain 100 Sun.

The zombie that moved into the house is then removed from the game. This zombie is not considered to be destroyed for the purposes of rule “Zombejuice”.
If the Landlord’s Plot is Overrun, they immediatly receive a new Plot after a random Plot, and gain an additional 100 Sun and 20 Wood.

In Rule “Resources”, change:

As a weekly action, a Farmer may Harvest by adding 100 to their Sun.

To

As a weekly action, a Farmer that owns one or more Plots may Harvest by adding 100 to their Sun.
As a weekly action, a Farmer that does not own any Plot may Perform Juicy Rituals by adding 20 to their Juice.

If more than half of the EVC’s to this proposal contain the word “START”, add a new Dynastic Rule, called “Victory?”:

Whenever a Farmer is the only Farmer owning a Plot other than the Landlord, that Farmer acheves Victory.

Change the last Paragraph in rule Farmland (not considering subrules as part of that Rule) to:

New Farmers shall receive a Plot that is immediately below a random Plot. Unidling Farmers have their Resources set to 0 Sun, 0 Wood and 10 Juice.

Remove all the Plots marked as Inactive from the Garden Patch.

Sorry for posting twice (almost) the same Proposal, but since the last one failed at 5-5 with two Farmers voting against due to a scammy (?) title and since I could not defend the Proposal from the critics (I was on holiday), here it comes again, with a little tweak to help landless farmers.
About discriminating Unidling players: I think that a person unidling at the right time in a Dynasty should not have better odds than a poor Farmer that fought many battles to get a Zombie-free Plot. It’s hard not to discriminate unidling and new players, but I prefer giving them worse chances than a free path to victory (see Rodlen’s almost win in Clucky’s dynasty: he unidled in a winning position). I think the best strategy to win a Dynasty should be playing it, not unidle-and-declare-victory.
Note that a Point victory is as discriminating as this, and even worse, since in a grinding mechanic it’s harder to catch up than raiding a Plot with 10+20 Juice. (and +20/week).
I hope my point is clear.

posted by Ely at 13 Jun 2011 12:24:22 UTC Comments (15)

Comments

Ely:

13-06-2011 12:44:57 UTC

for EoV START please

Yoda:

13-06-2011 14:55:28 UTC

against There’s several problems with this that need to be addressed:

It’s unclear what happens to my old plot when it gets overrun.  This also applies to any farmer who owns more than 1 plot.  What happens when only one of their plots is overrun?

I would think that farmers should lose a portion of their sun/wood according to the number of plots they own (more plots = less lost resources).  Also, shouldn’t you add 10 to a farmer’s juice that just got overrun rather than setting it to 10?

If I’m reading this correctly, unidling farmers don’t get any plot but new farmers do.  I don’t see why you should treat them differently.  Either give them both a plot in a random location or deny them both a plot.

Your rules ambiguously contradict rule 1.2 where it says “The Farmer’s personal gamestate retains the values it had immediately prior to their going Idle. If one or more values would be undefined, it is set to the value new Farmer receive, if such a value exists.”  Unidling farmers keep the plots that they had before going idle, which I’m gathering is what this proposal is trying to avoid.  Erasing their plots from the wiki page won’t fix that.  Also, unidling farmers who don’t already have a plot automatically get what a new farmer gets (in this case, a new plot in a random location).  Differentiating between new and unidling farmers does nothing in light of this rule.

Ely:

13-06-2011 15:24:25 UTC

thanks for the feedback.
Unless there are nasty loopholes, no farmer should ever get more than 1 plot (and it would be against rule Farmland: “Some farmers have a plot”).
Dynastic rules have the precedence over Core rules, so I don’t see your second concern.

Yoda:

13-06-2011 15:36:48 UTC

The text “already owns one or more Plots” implies that farmers can own more than one plot, and you never specify when I get the new plot.  It could be interpretted that I receive the new plot, then all my plots are removed from the garden patch.

There’s nothing in your proposed rules that states that unidling farmers don’t get their plot back.  Also, don’t you think it would be a bit unfair to lose all your hard work on your plot just because you idled for a few days?

Winner:

13-06-2011 20:40:07 UTC

imperial

Bucky:

14-06-2011 00:06:47 UTC

imperial

scshunt:

14-06-2011 00:54:58 UTC

for

aguydude:

14-06-2011 01:18:09 UTC

imperial I like the general idea, but I’m not sure about Yoda’s points, so I’ll leave it Ely to try to convince Yoda to change his mind :)

Yoda:

14-06-2011 05:17:01 UTC

I think the main problem is that Ely’s proposals have been trying to do too much at once, which is why I like aguydude’s proposal.

SingularByte: he/him

14-06-2011 06:10:37 UTC

imperial

mideg:

14-06-2011 07:35:23 UTC

for START

How do you introduce a victory condition like this without changing all the rules that depend on the condition and influence it?

Just introducing a tiny bit of this would make everyone here shout all the missing pieces and vote NAY.

As for the proposal: I would like it better, if it was clear wether or not a Farmer can own more then one plot. Right now, I do not see any possibility of anyone gaining more than one plot, so why not making it clear? Since no one can gain more than one plot at the moment, I do not see that this causes any problems.

I also cannot understand how Yoda interprets “already owns one or more Plots” as gaining a plot.

Purplebeard:

14-06-2011 08:13:09 UTC

against Apart from the other objections, I’m still puzzled by the discrimination against unidlers. Why should someone who only played half a dynasty three years ago and wishes to rejoin be treated any different from new players?

To be honest, I much prefer aguydude’s proposal, or my earlier version.

Yoda:

14-06-2011 15:01:45 UTC

mideg: I’m not saying that they gain a plot, just that the wording is misleading in that it implies that a farmer can have multiple plots.

There’s still 2 possibly game-breaking problems with this proposal, though:

1. It can be interpretted that when my plot gets overrun, I immediately gain a new plot (to replace the old one) then all my plots are removed from the garden patch.

2. There’s nothing stating that unidling farmers don’t get their plots back, just that their resources get set to a certain value.  Under the core rules, since there’s nothing to contradict it, their plot would resume the status it had previous to going idle.

These points, along with the different treatment of new and unidling players, are my main concern.

mideg:

14-06-2011 15:28:42 UTC

@1: True, this is not clear. This should be corrected.

@2: While there is a sentence there removing all Inactive Plots form the Garden Patch, it is true that I cannot find a rule handling the deletion of a Plot of a Farmer who idles out.

While these are valid problems, I am sorry for Ely that they were not pointed out earlier. This is, after all, his third (if I counted correctly) try on this and disregarding the point regarding the different treatment of new and unidling players, I can only see “correctable” mistakes in here.

Ely:

15-06-2011 08:32:47 UTC

against forgot to self kill.