Sunday, January 31, 2021

Proposal: You Do You

Timed Out. Fails 2-2—Clucky

Adminned at 02 Feb 2021 20:10:58 UTC

Add a new dynastic rule called “Alternative Deference” and give it the following text

If a Proposal modifies a single treaty, a DEFERENTIAL vote whose EVC contains a second DEFERENTIAL vote icon by a signatory of this treaty counts as a FOR vote on that proposal if the majority of signatories of the treaty in question who have voted on the proposal have voted FOR the proposal, and an AGAINST vote if the majority has voted AGAINST the proposal. Otherwise, it behaves the same as a standard DEFERENTIAL vote

Allow people to defer to the group of signatories of a treaty rather than the Player, simply by making two DEF votes in the same post.

Comments

Bucky:

31-01-2021 22:01:15 UTC

for  for

Brendan: he/him

31-01-2021 23:05:42 UTC

... Without [Universal] in the title, isn’t this a treaty? The kind of treaty that modifies other rules outside its own text? The kind we must all rely on the wisdom of the Player to veto?

Bucky:

31-01-2021 23:44:42 UTC

It’s a grey area as a treaty.  imperial for now while I consider.

Clucky: he/him

01-02-2021 00:12:13 UTC

Does it modify other rules?

All it does is modify what the votes of people who sign the treaty are. And it doesn’t give them more voting power. Just the ability to better control what their final vote actually is.

Brendan: he/him

01-02-2021 00:22:39 UTC

You’re right, I should have read more carefully.

Brendan: he/him

01-02-2021 00:54:52 UTC

Nope, actually I think I was right the first time. The Ruleset says “When a Proposal creates or modifies a Treaty, every Emperor that voted FOR it becomes a Signatory to that Treaty; for this purpose, a DEFERENTIAL vote is never a FOR vote.” This one contains the possibility that “if a Proposal modifies a single treaty,a DEFERENTIAL vote… counts as a FOR vote on that proposal.” Thus, this overrides a Universal Rule by the “more specific beats less specific” principle.

By the same logic, I could create a Treaty that read “If a Proposal modifies a single treaty, a VETO vote by any Signatory of this Treaty, which group automatically includes the Player, counts as a FOR vote.” Doesn’t that occupy the same theoretical gamespace?

Raven1207: he/they

01-02-2021 00:56:05 UTC

for

Bucky:

01-02-2021 01:15:07 UTC

Clucky, this has the same admin-subjectivity issue that you called out an earlier proposal for nonsignatory admins.

Furthermore, it’s not clear as-written whether Emperors who didn’t sign this treaty but did sign the one under amendment count as voters for resolving double-DEFs.

against

Clucky: he/him

01-02-2021 05:23:22 UTC

I’m not sure I agree it has the same subjectivity issues.

If a player signs a rule saying their vote is X, that means their vote is X even if the admin doing the admining doesn’t sign that same rule.

Emperors who don’t sign this treaty are still “signatories of the treaty in question”, so their votes would still count

Darknight: he/him

02-02-2021 04:35:41 UTC

imperial