Saturday, October 09, 2021

Proposal: [Core] Power to the People

Fewer than a quorum voting against. Failed 1 vote to 6 by Kevan.

Adminned at 11 Oct 2021 13:51:22 UTC

Amend “Citizens” to:

== Citizens ==
The process of applying for access to the BlogNomic blog is outlined in the [[FAQ]]. A human with access to the blog who is not already a Citizen may make a blog post making clear their wish to be a Citizen (plural form Citizens); in response, an Admin shall add them to the roster in [Core Tracking], at which moment they become a Citizen.

A Citizen may only change their name as a result of a Proposal approving the change.

Some Citizens are ‘’‘Admins’‘’, responsible for updating the site and the Ruleset, and are signified as such in [Core Tracking]. Citizens who wish to become Admins may sign up with a username for the Ruleset Wiki, and submit a Proposal to make themselves Admins. Existing Admins may be removed from their posts by Proposal, CfJ, or voluntary resignation.

===Idle Citizens===

A Citizen can be Idle or not. Current Non-idle Citizens are listed in [Core Tracking]. For the purposes of all Gamestate and the Ruleset, excluding the core and appendix Rules “Ruleset and Gamestate”, “Citizens”, “Dynasties”, “Fair Play”, “Mentors” and any of those Rules’ subrules, Idle Citizens are not counted as Citizens. The combined term “Idle Citizen” can be used to refer to Citizens who are Idle even in rules that do not treat them as Citizens.

If a Proposal contains a provision that targets a specifically named Idle Citizen, then that Idle Citizen is considered to be Unidle solely for the purposes of enacting that specific provision.

When a Citizen is unidled, if they went Idle in the same Dynasty, their personal gamestate retains the last legally endowed values it had, if they are still valid. Otherwise (including if a value is invalid, does not exist, or the Citizen Idled in a different Dynasty), the Citizen is given the default value for new Citizens, if such a value exists.

A Citizen can Unidle or Idle themselves if their Idle/Unidle status hasn’t changed in the last 96 hours and within the current dynasty. They should announce when they do this in a blog post or comment.

An Admin can Idle a Citizen that hasn’t posted an entry or commented in the last 7 days (168 hours). They should announce when they do this in a blog post or comment.

Quorum and the total amount of players should be tracked at [Core Tracking].

Idle admins can resolve Votable Matters as if they were not idle.

Turning the Active Player list into a wikipage, and making anyone able to Unidle and Idle themselves, removing it as an Admin-only thing.


Kevan: Drone he/him

09-10-2021 17:31:01 UTC

Would we attempt to display this information in the sidebar (which I think can only be done as a second big IFRAME, but maybe there are clever cross-site ExpressionEngine solutions), or is it enough that admins can check the wiki when they need to see what quorum is?

Does seem like it might be easier and more useful to combine this with Dynastic Tracking: to say that the Dynastic Tracking page always, at a minimum, tracks who’s active and what quorum is.

You’re also removing the automatic idling of players after seven days - is that intentional?


09-10-2021 18:10:54 UTC

The intent was a second iframe, but combining the two seems like a good idea.

I’ll add back the auto-idling, was unintentional.

redtara: they/them

09-10-2021 18:21:15 UTC

> Does seem like it might be easier and more useful to combine this with Dynastic Tracking: to say that the Dynastic Tracking page always, at a minimum, tracks who’s active and what quorum is.

On the other hand I feel like there’s an advantage to having the players always tracked in a single location. More… auditable.

Kevan: Drone he/him

09-10-2021 18:27:56 UTC

Most dynastic gamestate pages end up with a one-row-per-player table, though, and for the ones that don’t, we could just add a plain list of names and “quorum is X” anywhere on the page.

Kevan: Drone he/him

09-10-2021 22:24:48 UTC

So the actual changes being proposed here are:

1. Citizens control their own idle status
2. Timing out drops from “admins must announce this in a blog post” to “admins should announce this in a blog post or comment”
3. If you time out, you have to wait four days before you can join again
4. Have a second IFRAME in the sidebar

against for 2 and 4, and probably 3.

I think timing out needs to be relatively loud so that the idled player can see that it’s happened.

I think it’d make more sense to combine the proposed Core Tracking page with the Dynastic Tracking wiki page that’s already in the sidebar, than to have two IFRAMEs.

Forcing a timed out player to sit out for another four days if they want to come straight back feels a bit punitive. Although it does resolve the weirdness where if you’re four days idle but there’s a small chance you might want to play again in a few days’ time, you’re currently incentivised to time out (so that you can instantly wake up at any point) than to ask to be idled (because if you want to play again three days later, you can’t).

I’m also curious whether any of the less active players would miss the option to ask an admin (who is expected to know how the game works and whether the current dynasty has any knock-on effects when the players change) to idle or unidle them. If idling is a thing you have to do yourself and get right, is that going to change how often people enter and leave the game?

Clucky: he/him

10-10-2021 01:39:02 UTC

In addition to what Kevan said, this also adds restrictions to when you can go idle. No joining a dynasty, realizing it isn’t for you early on, and then going idle. Furthermore, I worry a bit about the load on newer players who might not get how to unidle.

I’m also a bit more worried about the “should announce unidling”. Its already a bit of a problem with admins, but I think in general “its recommended that you announce when you join/leave” leaves a pretty big avenue open for sneaky behavior.

Lastly, the sidebar is somewhat useful for finding players so you can send the PMs. While a lot of that has navigated to the discord, I do worry what removing the current active player profile links from the sidebar would do. If you do have to send someone a PM, it makes it a lot more annoying to track their account down.

Josh: he/him

10-10-2021 06:58:58 UTC


Raven1207: he/him

10-10-2021 23:44:11 UTC


Zack: he/him

11-10-2021 00:41:26 UTC


Brendan: he/him

11-10-2021 13:23:57 UTC



11-10-2021 13:38:57 UTC