Friday, November 22, 2019

Proposal: Everyone feels better with the Monster gone

unpopular 2-1 failed by card

Adminned at 24 Nov 2019 19:14:06 UTC

In the rule “The Adventurers”, repeal the sentence “If an Adventurer with non-zero Havoc (known as the “Harrowed”) is not the Monster, any Adventurer may add the Harrowed’s Havoc to the Harrowed’s Merit, then set the Harrowed’s Havoc to zero.”

In the sub-rule “The Monster”, amend “If there is no Monster and there is at least one Adventurer who hasn’t been the Monster in this dynasty” as follows:

If there is no Monster, no Adventurer is Harrowed and there is at least one Adventurer who hasn’t been the Monster in this dynasty

In the same sub-rule, amend the final paragraph as follows:

Once an Adventurer ceases to be the Monster, and until they have been Soothed, they are considered to be Harrowed. If an Adventurer is Harrowed, any Adventurer or the Priest can Soothe them by taking the following steps:

– Increase the Merit of every Adventurer other than the Harrowed by 1000 - X, where X is the Harrowed’s Havoc before anyone attempts to Soothe them.
– Increase the Harrowed’s Merit by X (see previous step), then set the Harrowed’s Havoc to zero.
– Set every Adventurer’s HP to its default value for that Adventurer.

Once these steps have been completed, the Harrowed Adventurer has been Soothed and is no longer Harrowed.

In the rule “Aftermath”, amend “After Passing Judgement” as follows:

After Judgement has been Passed, and so long as no Adventurer is Harrowed

Following this. Also, it makes sense for all after-effects of the Battle to happen at the same time.

Comments

Kevan: he/him

22-11-2019 15:53:39 UTC

Might make even more sense to merge the Merit/HP update with the existing “Harrowed” update, to remove the automatic, invisible Merit update entirely.

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

22-11-2019 15:54:23 UTC

Good point.

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

22-11-2019 16:04:23 UTC

Wait, what? I thought you meant I could remove the “Harrowed” part entirely and add the Monster’s Merits update to this part, but now I’m not sure.

Kevan: he/him

22-11-2019 16:12:07 UTC

The Harrowed update is a voluntary action taken by a player to update necessary gamestate after a battle (“If an Adventurer with non-zero Havoc (known as the “Harrowed”) is not the Monster, any Adventurer may add the Harrowed’s Havoc to the Harrowed’s Merit, then set the Harrowed’s Havoc to zero.”).

The Merit update you’re working from here is an invisible gamestate update that happens automatically, which you’re attaching a “please remember to update this” HP reset to.

May make more sense to combine all of these into a single non-automatic action which is “if someone’s Harrowed, update their Merit, update everyone else’s Merit, and update everyone’s HP”.

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

22-11-2019 16:26:36 UTC

Got it. I agree. Give me a few minutes to think how best to implement this.

Kevan: he/him

22-11-2019 16:42:14 UTC

Yeah. It’s tempting to just attach it to the Harrowed trigger: the only situation it won’t catch is where the battle ended with the Monster dealing no damage, but there was still some inter-Adventurer damage they’d want to have healed. But this seems unlikely to ever happen (particularly as we only have one more Monster to go).

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

22-11-2019 16:45:36 UTC

I thought of it, and would still prefer to leave no loopholes. Which means that I’m changing the meaning of Harrowed, and making the removal of this status a prerequisite for the next Battle to begin. (I actually like that it would be less invisible this way.) Truly not-automatic this way.

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

22-11-2019 17:19:40 UTC

There. Now you can’t start a Battle if an Adventurer is Harrowed, nor declare victory, and it doesn’t matter whether the Monster is Distracted or a pacifist.

I’ve tried to avoid using an Atomic Action for this, considering the tangles that might occur if someone updated the character sheets in a different order.

TyGuy6:

22-11-2019 19:17:18 UTC

I’m usually for avoiding casual AA usage, but I think this one might need it. What stops someone from only taking the first step? And I don’t know what tangles you might be referring to—AA steps can only be done in order, and it’d be fairly obvious if someone zeroed the havoc before transferring it. against

I’m ok with the old setup. It seemed to be working alright.

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

22-11-2019 20:03:41 UTC

“Once these steps have been completed, the Harrowed Adventurer has been Soothed and is no longer Harrowed.” It has to be all of them.

And that missed dice roll of yours alerted me to the inconveniences of AAs. Perhaps I was over-cautious here, but it’s the sort of thing I wanted to avoid in what was a rather simple series of steps.

I’d be willing to propose this again with an AA if it fails here, but I don’t like the current setup very much. The way that the three after-effects of Battles are in three different places and are done in three different ways cries for improvement, and it annoys me how “Harrowed” is never mentioned because of how it’s handled. Plus, I do think it’s a good idea to ensure that one cannot declare victory before everyone’s Merit has been properly updated.

TyGuy6:

22-11-2019 20:40:24 UTC

“It has to be all of them.”

I don’t think it would work that way. If you list a set of steps that may be taken, it is as though you are describing a dance move. I can do the dance for as long as I like, in whatever order I like, for as long as the conditions for the dance being allowed are still met. This is a loose interpretation, but could be valid.

At best, you keep me from taking the steps out of order, but you don’t stop another Adventurer from taking the steps simultaneously!

Basically, the long list of restrictions worked into the AA rule can probably be ignored. If you want to avoid AAs for a complex set of steps, precise language is instead required.

TyGuy6:

22-11-2019 20:41:23 UTC

Meanwhile, I’m going to patch that victory condition bug.

card:

23-11-2019 07:27:31 UTC

aside from the victory condition bug, i’m not sure this is necessary?
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