Friday, May 05, 2017

Proposal: Rinse and Repeat

And that’s time! 4-2 enacted by card.

Adminned at 08 May 2017 04:40:21 UTC

Add a rule titled “Tags” with the text

Tags are put in the title of the votable matter with the format “[X]” where X is the tag. Votable matters with tags in their titles are considered to have those tags. Tags which are not defined anywhere are invalid. Votable matters cannot have invalid tags.

Votable matters have at least one tag, if no tags are given the defaults are used. Proposals default to [Dynastic] and [Gamestate], DoV default to [Victory] and [Gamestate] and other Votable matters default to the [Gamestate] tag. CfJ default to every tag.

Some valid tags are:
*Victory
*Dynastic
*Gamestate
*Core
*Appendix

Tags, other than [Victory] and [Gamestate], correspond to a rules which in the ruleset’s table of contents are prefixed with a string containing only numerals. For each tag which corresponds to a section in the ruleset, votable matters can only make changes to that tag’s corresponding ruleset section if they have that tag.

Votable matters can only affect the gamestate if they have the [Gamestate] tag.
Votable matters can only give a Manager victory if they have the [Victory] tag.

The partial list of valid tags is maintained as follows:
*tags, other than [Victory] and [Gamestate], which do not have a section in the ruleset they correspond to are not valid and should be removed from the list.
*rules which have a prefix in the ruleset’s Table of Contents that contain only numerals and don’t have a corresponding tag should have a tag added to the list. Adding a tag to the list is done by taking the section name that needs a tag and adding it to the list of valid tags. Then if the most recently added tag has the word “Rules”, remove that word from the tag unless that is the only word in the tag.

Also add above the “Vote” entry in the “Keywords” section:

;Table of Contents: The directory of section headings that is generated by the MediaWiki software for most pages in the wiki.
;TOC: Table of Contents.

I think the “free text” issue should be fine, since tags are only used in the titles of voteable matters and tags have no other meaning than changing the scope of a voteable matter. A tag that is titled [card wins!] is not gamestate, the same way that the bio of Hyphenicus Correcticus didn’t allow pokes to change the ruleset.

Comments

Madrid:

05-05-2017 17:41:56 UTC

I suggest making it dynastic so that we can testrun it in a safe enviroment, with the Commissioner being able to disable this at-will with a public post, to avoid any potential accidental (or intentional, lol) screwing.

Madrid:

05-05-2017 18:24:20 UTC

Or, even better, we continue play a subgame of nomic that exists within Blognomic juuuust in case a total freeze is possible.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus: he/they

05-05-2017 21:20:06 UTC

for

Madrid:

06-05-2017 10:57:25 UTC

“Voteable matters can only give a Manager victory if they have the [Victory] tag.” is a hard one.

If it indirectly gives a Manager victory, would it then need a tag? For example, a Proposal called the Apple Proposal that gives a Manager + 10 apples, and a preexisting rule says that you need 5 apples to win.

Would the Apple Proposal need the [Victory] tag?

Madrid:

06-05-2017 11:24:50 UTC

If no, then, well, that’s good imo.

If yes, then I can argue that the proposal that made Apples exist (Apples-Exist Proposal) needs the Victory tag, because like the Apple Proposal, it indirectly granted that guy Victory.

Or even a Fruits-Exist Proposal.

Or even the very first Proposal in the dynasty with the base rules, because without it, nobody would’ve been able to get victory.

That aside, also note that PAST Voteable Matters are still Voteable Matters.

So, this “Voteable matters have at least one tag, if no tags are given the defaults are used.” would apply to everything, in which case there would be a massive slaughter of legal voteable matters. against

Madrid:

06-05-2017 11:25:48 UTC

*massive slaughter of past legal voteable matters. against

Madrid:

06-05-2017 11:45:13 UTC

...Actually, even if those proposals would be invalid, wouldn’t their effects have been already processed? Like, the boat is dead but the cargo has been already shipped.

Hrm.

Regardless, I’m still worried about the Apples issue.

card:

06-05-2017 16:29:26 UTC

“If it indirectly gives a Manager victory, would it then need a tag? For example, a Proposal called the Apple Proposal that gives a Manager + 10 apples, and a preexisting rule says that you need 5 apples to win.

Would the Apple Proposal need the [Victory] tag?”
No, because it’s the rule which is giving someone victory in that case.

Also why does it matter if the past proposals are invalid in some way?

Madrid:

06-05-2017 17:21:59 UTC

1)No, because it’s the rule which is giving someone victory in that case.

1-r) OK. What if the proposal adds a rule that says “Cuddlebeam has achieved Victory in the current dynasty?”. I could then argue that it was the rule added that gave me victory, not the proposal itself, so it doesn’t need a tag, because “it’s the rule which is giving someone victory”.

2) Also why does it matter if the past proposals are invalid in some way?

2-r) I said later on that “Actually, even if those proposals would be invalid, wouldn’t their effects have been already processed? Like, the boat is dead but the cargo has been already shipped.”. I figured that even if past proposals are invalid, their effects have already taken place, so it kinda doesn’t matter. If it wasn’t clear by that, I’ll say it explicitly now lol: I think it actually doesn’t matter, currently. Before I did though, as posted, and was concerned.

Madrid:

06-05-2017 17:25:15 UTC

If it wasn’t clear by that* => with “that” referring to the the ship metaphor said earlier. I forget to proofread my stuff every time lol, sorry.

card:

06-05-2017 17:38:07 UTC

“OK. What if the proposal adds a rule that says “Cuddlebeam has achieved Victory in the current dynasty?”. I could then argue that it was the rule added that gave me victory, not the proposal itself, so it doesn’t need a tag, because “it’s the rule which is giving someone victory”.”
Sure. Also if that proposal passed, you’d then have to make a DoV which defaults to the [Victory] and [Gamestate] tags.

Madrid:

06-05-2017 17:41:16 UTC

Ok then all good for

Sphinx:

07-05-2017 10:47:46 UTC

for

pokes:

07-05-2017 16:08:13 UTC

against

arthexis: he/him

07-05-2017 21:30:33 UTC

against