Thursday, August 17, 2023

Proposal: Caffeinated City

Reached quorum 4 votes to 0. Enacted by Kevan.

Adminned at 19 Aug 2023 10:53:14 UTC

In the rule “Dilemmas” add the following text:

If it is possible for the City to Pose a Dilemma without taking any other actions first, or to first resolve Pending proposals through Enacting or Failing them and then immediately Pose a Dilemma without taking any actions other than those mentioned in this sentence, the City should do so at its earliest opportunity.

I liked “The City that Never Sleeps”, so if the only issue was the first point in the priority list, I thought it was worth correcting that one step, and otherwise using the rest of Kevan’s proposal. I know I could have waited until he had a slot back and let him do it, but I thought I’d try my hand at a fix.

Any problems with the wording, now that it explicitly calls out the actions of the first point?

I simplified this a lot based on Kevan’s feedback. He’s right: this doesn’t need to be a strict priority list, but a more casual guideline.

Comments

Kevan: City he/him

17-08-2023 13:45:48 UTC

The “Pose a Dilemma” step still falls under the scope of the possibility question - if I can’t Pose a Dilemma and want to take another action instead, it arguably “would be possible” for me to Pose that Dilemma (I’d just have to raise a CfJ to amend the ruleset to allow unlimited Dilemma posing), so the ruleset asks me to do that instead of taking the action.

Not sure “and core” is helpful in the action step. It’s saying that if I don’t have time to clear the queue and/or post dilemmas (if I’m busy or just checking in on my phone), I’m not allowed to cast votes either, not even on urgent CfJs.

JonathanDark: he/him

17-08-2023 14:26:40 UTC

I’ve added wording to explicitly state that Posing a Dilemma is only a priority if it’s possible to do so without taking any other actions first, other than the higher-priority actions, so that should eliminate the possibility question. I did not address the question of doing things like correcting gamestate if that’s a hindrance to Posing a Dilemma, mostly because the wording is already getting to be a lot.

I also removed “and core”, per your remark.

Kevan: City he/him

17-08-2023 16:01:08 UTC

Corrections are a good point there, given that they’re also core actions.

This is maybe starting to feel a bit excessive for something that became an optional “should”. If players are happy for it to run at the “should” level (where a mistake on my part wouldn’t be illegal and couldn’t be reverted), it could be a single and much more casually phrased sentence about how the City will generally try to create Dilemmas at early in the day and will always clear the queue first if it needs clearing.

JonathanDark: he/him

17-08-2023 16:24:40 UTC

You know, that’s a good point. We’re trying too hard to make this a strict priority list, when it could just as easily be a more casual guideline.

I’ve rewritten the whole Proposal to just be the last sentence, but included the “Enact or Fail” part to make clear what actions are recommended. It’s also not its own rule anymore, given that it’s just one sentence.

Kevan: City he/him

17-08-2023 16:47:30 UTC

“If it is possible for the City to Pose a Dilemma [...] the City should do so at its earliest opportunity.” is still more or less using the wording from Never Sleeps, and per my first comment here could maybe be read as asking me to Pose a Dilemma the long way by CfJing.

Although I don’t know whether Josh and Bucky were concerned about both the possibles in Never Sleeps, or just the first, other, one.

JonathanDark: he/him

17-08-2023 17:02:33 UTC

Oops, right. I added back in the “without taking any other actions” wording.

JonathanDark: he/him

17-08-2023 17:07:37 UTC

And since this Proposal is using “should”, I don’t see it as prohibitive on casting votes for critical CfJs, to borrow your example from earlier.

Kevan: City he/him

17-08-2023 17:12:18 UTC

Yes, “earliest opportunity” also covers that safely: that if I only have a couple of minutes spare then that’s not enough opportunity to clear the queue or write a Dilemma, but it is enough time to vote on a CfJ.

Josh: he/they

17-08-2023 19:31:42 UTC

At this point, what is this proposal for? Can’t Kevan just do this of his own volition?

JonathanDark: he/him

17-08-2023 20:45:22 UTC

He can, but this is a “love letter” from the rest of us to request him to do this, rather than him having to pull off the Emperor blinds and try to judge what people want.

Kevan: City he/him

17-08-2023 20:50:25 UTC

I’ve said to the group that my Imperial Style will be “when taking any actions [...] will try to be fair to all players”.

I think it’s probably already implicit that it would be fair to process the queue before posting a Dilemma (otherwise the two admin players can get theoretical advantage over the two non-admins by choosing when certain changes enact). It’s less clear when the “fair” time of the day is for me to post a new Dilemma, especially under the Battery Garden - I’m not even 100% sure which timezone each player is in.

Putting it to a vote and writing it in the ruleset means that I don’t have to think about that and players don’t have to second-guess me on it.

lemon: she/her

18-08-2023 03:00:00 UTC

for aye, codifying this makes it clearer, which i appreciate!

Josh: he/they

18-08-2023 09:34:28 UTC

imperial

Kevan: City he/him

18-08-2023 09:39:00 UTC

for