Thursday, January 02, 2025

Proposal: Pecking in order

In the rule “The Award Ceremony”, change

Each Snail may have a Pecking Order;

to

Each Snail may have a Pecking Order, which (if present) is an ordinal number representing a position within a list (e.g. 1st, 2nd, etc.);

In the rule “Race Fame Modification”, change

Any Snail whose Pecking Order is 2 or Higher is Scrutinised. Any Snails whose Pecking Order is one of the two lowest values is an Underdog, unless they are Scrutinised. All Snails who are neither Scrutinised nor Underdogs are Runners.

to

Any Snail with a Pecking Order of 1st or 2nd is Scrutinised. Any non-Scrutinised Snails whose Pecking Order is later than all, or all but one, other Snails with a Pecking Order are Underdogs. All Snails who are neither Scrutinised nor Underdogs are Runners.

The Pecking Order is defined backwards to the way that Race Fame Modification expects – high fame leads to low Pecking Order values, whereas low fame gives you a high value. Presumably, the Fame rewards are meant to give the largest rewards to players who are behind, rather than players who are ahead (especially as it doesn’t make sense to call the highest-fame Snails “Underdogs”).

Per JonathanDark, clarify exactly how the numbers work, in order to avoid confusion.

Comments

JonathanDark: he/him

02-01-2025 14:21:29 UTC

The problem is that Pecking Order is treated like an ordinal in another part of the rules. In “Races”, there’s this step:

Set each Snail’s Pecking Order to be their current position on an list of Snails ordered from most to least Fame (with tied values sharing the same position, and subsequent values skipped to compensate).

I’d rather see this corrected by simply changing “lowest values” to “last ordinals”. Continuing the use of “highest values” and “lowest values” retains the undesired ambiguity.

JonathanDark: he/him

02-01-2025 14:24:11 UTC

To be clear, I’m recommending the change I mentioned in “Race Fame Modification” rather than the change you proposed.

ais523:

02-01-2025 14:55:05 UTC

Does this look better? I decided to make it clearer that Pecking Order is an ordinal number rather than a normal integer (it was previously undefined how it worked).

JonathanDark: he/him

02-01-2025 17:01:44 UTC

“later” feels a little awkward but I think it works.

Josh: he/they

02-01-2025 17:24:15 UTC

I don’t know what “ordinal” means in the context of numbers, having never studied mathematics or computer programming beyond secondary education. This is not a request for an explanation; it is a reminder that technical language needs to be explained and that the requirements of precision and clarity need to be held in balance.  against

JonathanDark: he/him

02-01-2025 17:42:48 UTC

@Josh: Would you still agree that “lowest values” is ambiguous and could be used to interpret Pecking Order as integers, despite the intention that they represent ordering, e.g. 1 is a “lower value” than 3?

ais523:

02-01-2025 18:03:49 UTC

@Josh: the rule explains what ordinal numbers are by example (i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, as opposed to regular cardinal numbers which are 1, 2, 3). I agree it’s a slightly obscure term to use without explaining it, but the rule does explain it.

That said, it isn’t particularly a mathematical or computer-science term; based on old textbooks I think the distinction used to be taught in primary school, so it may just be a case of being too young. Wikipedia considers “ordinal numerals” to be a concept in linguistics, rather than mathematics or computer science.

ais523:

02-01-2025 18:04:31 UTC

@Josh: the rule explains what ordinal numbers are by example (i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, as opposed to regular cardinal numbers which are 1, 2, 3). I agree it’s a slightly obscure term to use without explaining it, but the rule does explain it.

That said, it isn’t particularly a mathematical or computer-science term (Wikipedia considers “ordinal numerals” to be a concept in linguistics, rather than mathematics or computer science). Based on old textbooks I think the distinction used to be taught in primary school, so it may just be a case of having been taught from too modern a curriculum.

Josh: he/they

02-01-2025 18:11:08 UTC

Yeah, you’re right, I’m being too inflexible.

for CoV

JonathanDark: he/him

03-01-2025 04:22:15 UTC

for

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