Sunday, October 03, 2021

Proposal: Time only moves when you move

Fewer than a quorum not voting against. Failed 1-7 by Kevan.

Adminned at 05 Oct 2021 11:29:02 UTC

Replace the rule The Clock with the following, leaving its subrules unchanged:

The Current Turn is a publicly tracked integer which indicates the passage of time in Earthlink Tower.

If a proposal has the [Action] tag, it is an Action Proposal. If an Action Proposal by a given Citizen is Pending, that Citizen may not create another Action Proposal.

A Turn Action is a kind of Dynastic Action which may only be performed through enactment of an Action Proposal. If an Action Proposal explicitly states one or more Turn Action(s) that the Proposer intends to perform, the Enacting Admin must perform the action(s) on behalf of the Proposer as part of the proposal’s enactment.

Immediately after Enacting an Action Proposal, the Enacting Admin must perform the following atomic action known as “Advancing Time”:
* Increment the Current Turn by 1.
* If the Current Turn is an even number, add a Copbot Swarm to each Floor that is occupied by a Citizen with a Heat Signature, except floors that already have a Copbot Swarm.

Set the Current Turn to 3.

Replace the second paragraph of Supply Requisitions with the following.

Each Zone may have a cache which contains a list of items. Each item in a Cache is assigned a range of numbers between 1 and 100 inclusive, known as that item’s Chance. Each item’s Chance may not overlap within a single Cache, and the collection of all Chances in a given Cache must as written include all numbers in between 1 and 100, inclusive.

As a Turn Action, a Citizen may Loot an item from a Cache in the Zone they occupy. To Loot an Item, perform the following atomic action:
* If the Citizen is on a floor which is Shorted Out and the Citizen does not have a Flashlight, reduce the upper limit of the Chance of each Item in the Cache by 10 for the purposes of applying the results of die roll in the next step. If doing so would place the upper limit below the lower limit for that Item, instead remove that Item from the Cache for the purposes of applying the results of the die roll in the next step.
* Take the result of a DICE100; the Citizen gains an instance of the corresponding Item from the Cache, if there is one.

If the ruleset contains a rule called Logistics, remove it’s Zone Rule and reword it as follows. Otherwise, add the following as a subrule to Floors called Machine Room:

As a Turn Action, a citizen may Take the Elevator to any valid floor.  Doing so sets their Floor to the specified floor, unless a citizen occupying this Zone during the Enactment of the Action Proposal has an EVC of FOR or DEFERENTIAL on that proposal which contains the phrase “elevator malfunction”.

I like the idea of primarily doing actions through proposals, but I still think some actions should be defined in a standard way, so we can say things like “A citizen may not Take the Elevator if XYZ” or “When a Citizen takes the elevator, XYZ happens”. An Action proposal doesn’t necessarily always need to explicitly perform a Turn Action, but it always Advances Time. Think of the Action tag less as a requirement to do something, and more of a way to announce “hey, I’m actually doing something here, not just modifying the ruleset.” This also implements an actual clock, and explicitly ties game actions to the clock, so time only moves when we move.



03-10-2021 13:08:49 UTC



03-10-2021 18:06:04 UTC

How about a line in the rule that says the current turn count, or specifies where else it is tracked? (Also sp: “an EVC of FOR of DEFERENTIAL”)

Zack: he/him

03-10-2021 18:16:38 UTC

Thanks, fixed the typo. It’s past the edit window now but “the Current Turn is a publicly tracked integer” so it defaults to being tracked on the Earthlink Tower wiki page.

Brendan: he/him

04-10-2021 01:41:34 UTC

imperial As Kevan has recently proposed an emphatic return to actions-via-proposal.

Kevan: he/him

04-10-2021 08:53:38 UTC

Doesn’t “the Enacting Admin must perform the action(s) on behalf of the Proposer” limit Turn Actions to the proposer?

If Buster proposes “Joe and I take the Elevator to Floor 4”, it will only move Buster - so players would have to either make a lot of conditional “if Proposal X passed, move me to Floor 4 also” proposals and trade votes, or just bypass Turn Actions entirely by proposing “move Joe and Buster directly to Floor 4, do not pass Go, this is not a Turn Action”.

Zack: he/him

04-10-2021 15:34:32 UTC

I never considered that people would be doing actions for/with other people in their own proposals, in fact I really don’t like that. Buster shouldn’t be able to make a proposal like “Zack and I take the elevator to Floor 4” because then if it passes I’m forced to go to Floor 4 even if I didn’t want to.

Zack: he/him

04-10-2021 15:39:02 UTC

I thought about making it so people with an vote of FOR or DEFERENTIAL can specify a Turn Action in their EVC on an Action Proposal, but I thought that would be a lot of work for the Enacting Admin. But I think that would solve your complaint about having to make conditional proposals.

Kevan: he/him

04-10-2021 17:42:47 UTC

We’ve already had a proposal to send a different player to the top floor. Aggressive moves aside, I’d expect most movement proposals to target multiple people - as a player, there’d be nothing in it for me if a proposal was just “move Zack to Floor 42”, so why would I vote for it? There’d need to be some kind of quid pro quo, and the easiest one would just be to talk to other players beforehand and get a clump of moves together in one proposal, where all the named parties would vote FOR it.

Putting Turn Actions into EVCs brings back the problem that Holding the Doors is proposing to remove: that players who deliberately make a late EVC (either because they’re lucky or dedicated with their timing, or because they are literally the enacting admin) can choose an optimal action based on what other people are doing, and with much less time for anyone else to react to it.

against given that this does seem to be unnecessarily limiting actions to the proposer only, and it’s already possible to make simple “move me to Floor 31 and give me a random item from its Cache” proposals directly.

Zack: he/him

04-10-2021 19:22:05 UTC

[Kevan] I see what you mean. I guess my mistake was thinking we need to standardize dynastic actions, but you would prefer to just directly modify game state through proposals. I think the misunderstanding between us is that I wouldn’t call that an “action”

Even if this passes, that kind of thing is still possible and we can just ignore turn actions. In fact, if this looks like it’s going to pass, I’ll just submit another proposal that removes Turn Actions.

EAV for since I still like my other changes to The Clock and Supply Requisitions, and I think the concept of Action Proposals and the Turn Counter will be useful for keeping track of what’s going on.

Also, RE:“there’d be nothing in it for me if a proposal was just “move Zack to Floor 42”, so why would I vote for it?” Imagine a proposal everyone loves and wants to vote for but just has “move Zack to floor 42” tacked into the end. If I don’t want to go to Floor 42, I’m screwed.

lemon: she/her

04-10-2021 21:13:46 UTC



05-10-2021 03:11:47 UTC

imperial It’s a bit too much text, not especially intuitive, and I’m likely not the one that’ll have to follow it (not admin).


05-10-2021 04:09:19 UTC


Clucky: he/him

05-10-2021 04:46:30 UTC


Kevan: he/him

05-10-2021 08:52:34 UTC

[Zack] Fair enough on terminology. I guess it’s useful to have some keywords defined so that we can write very simple proposals (“I Take an Elevator to Level 42, then everyone with a Cache in their Zone Loots that Cache”) - and some of those keywords being a bit restrictive or flawed can be useful if you’re negotiating for votes.

“Take the Elevator” does bring back the timing issues, though: if Joe is moving to my Zone but the proposal is made and enacted in 12 hours while I’m offline, I can’t raise a malfunction. “Like a regular move but with a possible timing snipe” is maybe a fair downside to ask people to vote on, but it shouldn’t use such a fundamental keyword - this is the “taking elevators” dynasty, and this makes it sound like vote sniping is a core mechanic.


05-10-2021 08:56:42 UTC


Josh: he/they

05-10-2021 09:24:02 UTC